Please help with child's outbursts? ADHD (and possibly more going on)

[seriouslynonames]

My DD8 is awaiting an ADHD assessment. At home things have become increasingly challenging over the last few years. It's only been the last 6-12 months she has started to express what she's finding difficult about school, although I have long known she hasn't been as happy as the teachers think she has been.

I understand that she's masking at school, holding it in all day, and home is her safe place to let things out. But the way she lets things out is not something we can continue to allow to happen.

We want to help her and support her so that she doesn't feel the impulse to behave as she does. I can cope with basically anything other than the hitting, kicking, throwing - once she starts down the path of destruction we have not found a way to de-escalate. Obviously the best option is that she doesn't get to the point of feeling like she needs to hurt someone (or herself). But it isn't always possible to catch things before they get bad.

I have been hit hard in the head tonight by an object thrown and now have a headache on top of the guilt, stress, confusion and despair. We just don't know how to help. She does not seem able to control her urge to hit and hurt, and although she does sometimes appear to feel shame after a bad incident, mostly she doesn't appear to. She seems to get a kick from it at times.

She feels so disproportionately angry and I don't know if ADHD alone can explain this. I know it's usually a build up of things over the course of a day or more, and it may be a small thing that just tips her over the edge. We need a way of pulling her back from the brink.

We need an emergency plan for when things have already gone past the point of no return and a future plan for stopping things getting that far. I have bought 'Calm the chaos' and 'the explosive child' etc (probably need to re read) and done lots of research, listened to podcasts etc. But we haven't yet found a way of bringing her back down to earth before someone gets hurt, or a way of reducing the build up consistently. Something will work once or twice then never again. We have had so many conversations with her about it all when calm. But the older she gets the less she seems to recognise the destructive nature of her behaviour. She feels angry, feels the need to lash out, and sees it as justified. It's scary.

Advice welcome, thank you.

OK, we had this.

It's a sign she's not coping. Amygdala hijack. You know that. You can't reason with it.

I'd suggest letting her run it off after school (we drive our DD to school and park as far away as possible...)

Remove yourself from the situation. Be aware of where throwable objects are. If she looks hitty or kicky, lock yourself in the loo for a bit. Go outside for a bit.

Try NVR. We found that helpful. The Explosive Child is good. I read that at least a dozen times.

I was in a research study for parents in this position and girls do seem to grow out of this particular behaviour by 10, so hang in there.

We also had spitting, which was pretty bad. It was shin kicking that used to tip me over the edge.

At 10 she's still got the explosive energy but it's channelled into football and other sports and activities.

I've used a lot of words to say that only time, maturity and patience will cure it (medication might be worth exploring? Can you get the assessment privately? It's not as expensive as ADOS).

Thanks @Phineyj
It's a relief to know we aren't the only ones, and good to know things are in a better place for your family now. We are getting the assessment done privately as when we first asked the GP (mid-pandemic) for help, there was no chance of getting on any waiting list to see what route we might need to follow, and it took us months to even get onto a private waiting list. When we did, and saw the psychologist we discovered that their clinic only did a combined assessment (with ASD) so we then had to start over with a new waiting list. School were seeing no issues so were not in a position to refer her.

So we are still a long way off being able to access medication.

I think it's the throwing that's worst, I am used to the hitting and kicking. She pushes too, I find that hard to handle. We don't (yet!) have spitting thankfully. It really bugs me when she hits her (older) sister, when all her sister has done is walk in the room. Her sister's existence is a trigger for DD8.

I tend not to be able to walk away when she reaches peak destruction as she follows, or goes straight to her sister's room, or aims her anger at the cats. So I have to stay present.

I will look into NVR, thank you. I hope time and maturity help, as I am dreading her getting older and stronger!

She has a club most days - some aren't sport, but still things she enjoys, others are sport or more active things. Will see if I can just get her out for a walk more, if she doesn't have as much on.

Thanks for the solidarity, I need it!

It will get better. It does feel awful while it's happening though.

We only have the one DC (and the cats were excellent at pelting behind the sofa at the first sign of trouble...)

Regarding your other child, I've heard the charity "Sibs" is good. If she likes to read, the books by Libby Scott: 'Do you see me?' etc give good insight.

I'm sure your youngest feels awfully ashamed of herself when she comes to.

I'll try to find the study I participated in, in case it's helpful. I treated it like free therapy! I hope you can find some help for you. It's very hard on the rest of the family.

Oh yes if you can find the study that would be really useful, thank you

If school was easier for DD, home life would improve too because she wouldn’t be experiencing the coke bottle effect. With that in mind, what support is the school providing? Have you spoken to the SENCO? Do they use anything like Zones of Regulation? Does DD have an EHCP? If not, you need to request an EHCNA. If she does, you need to request an early review.

Do you have any sensory equipment/trampoline/punch bag DD can use or decompress? What is DD’s eating like? Some DC are far more likely to ‘lose it’ when hungry, even if they don’t recognise they are hungry.

durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1628190/ this is the study.

Thanks @KeepGoingThomas yes I was hoping that making school better would make home better. She only started junior school in September, so although it's a school she is familiar with (next door to the infants) year 3 is a big change. I have spoken to her teacher and the lead ELSA and she has stuff like a wobble cushion, ear defenders etc. I think they offer movement breaks too. She has been reluctant to stand out among her friends but is feeling more able to talk to her teacher now. So although school are helping, the expectations on her in year 3 are higher so it's not making enough of a difference. She doesn't have an EHCP as hasn't needed it thus far.

I have bought an indoor /fitness trampoline thing, which she likes but she won't use it when I suggest she might need to - only when are chooses to. I bought a donut type of beanbag she can get inside. Big stepping stones she can use indoors or out. Fidget and loads of other sensory bits.

I don't think she can spot when things are building. And when I can, she doesn't want to listen to my suggestions of things to help calm her. Then it builds very quickly to aggression, hitting, kicking etc.

You have a point about being hungry. I need to be more on it with this. Thanks for your help.

Thanks @Phineyj for the link, I'll check it out

Have a look at some PDA strategies. At the minute, DD probably sees you suggesting using the sensory equipment as a demand.

I don't think she can spot when things are building.

Many DC can’t. The trick is to help them learn strategies during calm moment and then catch them early - over time you will spot the signs in DD.

I was searching the internet for some advice or knowledge on potential adhd outbursts and came across this thread. @seriouslynonames I could have written this post.
I’ve always suspected some form of ADHD with my DD8, but lockdown happened and everyone went crazy with anxiety so for a long time I blamed that. We’ve had horrendous behaviour at home for about 12-18months now. Door slamming, hitting, punching and throwing things, breaking our valuables. She also swears at us, which I can’t stand. I believe it’s all impulse and she hates doing it but cannot control herself. GP said there may be some ODD alongside the ADHD as we struggle daily, she refuses do follow any instructions. Even getting in the car is a painful experience.
she also wets herself! Daily. It’s hard work. But she also hates the sensory overload of a shower.

We are in waiting for an ADHD assessment, having made a referral via school. (Where she also masks so it took some convincing)
Im worried the assessment will say she’s fine and this is just how life is with her. My DD5 is so different, calm, approachable, can be disciplined. My eldest is very irritable, it’s like walking on egg shells.

I don’t have any advice in particular, but I do sympathise, relate and understand. You are not alone!! keep going with your great parenting. Let’s hope things get better. The fact you care so much speaks volumes.

‘I was in a research study for parents in this position and girls do seem to grow out of this particular behaviour by 10 so hang in there.’

thats interesting because a lot of parents say puberty coming in makes it worse. I agree either way that it’s key that school reduce her anxiety because she is not fine in school and this is her reaction to that.

Thanks for your replies @Withcoffee and @LushFloral (and merry Christmas if you're celebrating!).
I don't know what more to ask the school to do. But we now have an observation lined up which will hopefully give a bit more insight into what adjustments might help.
I think what DD would ideally like is much smaller class or one to one teaching, with flexibility in the structure of the day to suit what she feels interested in learning about that day. Clearly that isn't ever going to be possible with the education system we have. So I don't quite know where that leaves us.
But one step at a time.
The last week has been hard as she just seems to be getting anxious about everything and she and I missed out on Christmas day fun yesterday whilst my DH and other DD went to join family.
Hope you are all having some seasonal fun x

@LushFloral it could be they grow out of it by 10 and then it comes back at puberty! I mean, hopefully not but let's just say I'm trying to enjoy her 11th year just in case...

OP there are a few more options once they hit secondary age. InterHigh for example. And if KS3 doesn't go well, I'm considering a performing arts school for DD. 5 academic GCSEs plus lots of performance.

I don't know what more to ask the school to do.
I think what DD would ideally like is much smaller class or one to one teaching, with flexibility in the structure of the day to suit what she feels interested in learning about that day.

This is why you need to request an EHCNA. An EHCNA will inform you and professionals of DD’s needs and the support she requires. If they are required, small classes, 1:1 teaching and child-led are possible, as is internet schooling (some cater for KS2 pupils). Also, far more support in MS can be given with an EHCP.

Every child is different of course but I’m hoping that once high school ends, it will get easier. I think the hormonal changes are pretty hard for all teens so which extra sensory things also in the picture then that makes it really tough for some kids. You’re doing right to look to enjoy the moment though, at every age!

Thanks all for the help so far. I have a further question if I may. I am looking to build on the sensory stuff we have already got and thinking about a sensory swing thing for indoors. We have a hammock swing we can use in the garden when it's warmer and drier weather but good to have something indoors. I have seen ones you can hang from the ceiling but some are really cheap some are much more expensive and I'd welcome any recommendations if anyone has used one. This is the sort of thing I mean, but never heard of this website so no idea if any good. https://www.toysmegastore.co.uk/gb/sensory-therapy-swing-has-a-calming-effect-on-childrens-needs-grey/p-79700787-165022376?language=en&ac=toysmegastoremulti&asc=pmax&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAqNSsBhAvEiwAn_tmxSuXWHMYhrf0yj6RZ9xFl4-ZbuXFJ8OjHglZCHuMw6mrR3dxrYslaRoCL5IQAvD_BwE
Thank you!

Southpaw kit is amazing, but not cheap.