Managed move meeting tomorrow morning. Possible ADHD. Help!

[Welliesandpyjamas]

Looking for some last minute help and direction please.

Background: 14 yr old DS in yr 10
We have had endless problems with him. On school's advice, started investigation in to ADHD two years ago and we are still waiting for the NHS to help there. In meantime, due to immense escalation of behavioural problems, we went private and are waiting for outcome (hope to hear in next fortnight). They have already said he has many ASD traits but because he has social skills won't diagnose.

Current issue: school have called me in tomorrow to discuss a managed move as, for obvious reasons, DS continues the same. Pastoral team have done everything to get him through secondary so far. He is currently on a behaviour outreach support plan through county and in therapy. No SEND support in school because there is no diagnosis. I don't believe a move would help at this stage as change is a problem for him. The behaviour support lady and his pastoral head of year say the same but they won't be at the meeting.

What do I need to know about managed moves for tomorrow? It would be within the same trust.
Can I ask for a postponement of the decision until we know he has ADHD or not?

SEND support in school is based on need not diagnosis. Ask them what support they have put in place so far to address the issues he is presenting with.

What behaviours are the issue? Could any of these issues be a result of the potential Sen? Have they consulted with any external organisations for advice or support?

Relating to a managed move, there is usually a trial period where specific targets need to be met for the new school to accept on a permanent basis. What are the targets they are suggesting? How realistic are these targets? If they are related to the unmet need for Sen support and it is not in place, they are setting him up to fail.

What happens if the managed move fails? Usually they go back to the original school - but sometimes that school then sends them to an APC....

As pp posted, support in school is based on needs and the school must make their best endeavours to meet DS’s SEN, diagnosis or not.

You should request an EHCNA ASAP. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

You can ask to hold off an a manger move, but be aware if you refuse to agree it may well result in the school excluding DS. You may be able to challenge a PEX on the basis they haven’t provided SEN support, but obviously it is something you need to be aware may happen.

Hi,
Not advertising here but look up Sunshine Support - a lot of free advice along with 2 hour webinars that you can either subscribe to watch all (£9.99 a month) or subscribe to join a live one (specific topics each time). This is for the future - there will be an existing one on exclusions (or at least some website advice) but long term you need help on what you can do / who can best help you, and what you can do about making your son's life happier and heathier.

I got so much from the site I engaged them to look over the Draft EHCP for my daughter - (expensive) - but it came back with corrections all over it, "get-outs" put in by the LA identified and loads of references to the CAFA 2014 and case law. I think the LA is still reeling from the changes requested.

With regard to the school situation - remember although they would like to "get rid" of the situation they have a duty of care to you and your son. He is not doing the things he does because he is "bad" - he has needs that are not being met. You can state in any meeting:
"I'm not an expert, so I expect you to inform me:"

1. what you are proposing - and outline the stages / appeal etc?
2. If you are allowed to do this if I object?
3. What alternatives there are?
4. The guideline / school policies they are following - ask for copies
5. Who is making the decisions and timescales for appeals etc.
6. What the school has done to try and address the issue before this stage (ask for a written record)
7. Who has been involved in process escalation - e.g. governor level?
8. Have all school policies / LA policies been followed?

As previously stated by other posts, as its reached this stage tomorrow, the school may have a clear strategy on how they are going to do things and what conclusion they want. But this might not be the case.
Take someone with you as an indpendent witness - get them to note down all the responses, this can slow things down to give you thinking time.

Consider honestly yourself if this indeed (when you look back) might be a turning point? If the school hasn't addressed your sons support needs, will things change if he stays at the school?

The EHC needs assessment route is long and complex but don't believe what the schools tell you 12 months, assess,plan,do,review etc. The only criteria that has to be met is if the child might have a learning / other difficulty which may require additional learning support.

It is possible if you show that you are serious about challenging any decision, and you will look at all the processes followed for non-compliance they will defer the decision at least until after the half term break, that gives you thinking time.
Don't go in already stressed tomorrow, ask for an explanation of each part and slow things down to the pace you want. Write what is said and repeat back to them noting down who said what. Don't be intimidated with "this is what has to happen", and start your research. When you get back type up your notes and send to the school asking them to read and confirm that (i) the document represents an accurate record of what was said / agreed and, (ii) confirm that all what is proposed / recommended conforms to all school and education policies, and that they have informed you of all options and alternative routes available.

Ask for a full educational record report including disciplinary incidents and support interventions - this is your right under "The Education (pupil information (England) Act 2005"

Other Legal searches
CAFA 2014
SEND Code of Practice
Statutory Instruments - The Special Educational Needs and Disability Regulations 2014

Web:
sunshine-support.org
IPSEA.org
Your Local Authority SEND Offer

Good luck.

Wonderful advice and responses! Thank you all so much! This is exactly the clarity and direction I needed. Years of battling for an answer and some support have left me as a bit of a shell of myself and I often don't know where to start.

To try and sum it up, the behaviour pattern is always the same: he can't focus or remember in class >> feels frustrated/agitated >> it expresses itself as rudeness, too much movement, etc >> he gets behaviour points >> he gets defiant because he disagrees but can't explain why (he is very rigid in his thought so things have to make sense to him and he can't understand idioms etc) >> it escalates to being isolated (where he gets worse because it is a no movement, stare straight ahead and work type of setting) or given detentions >> and all the time this pattern repeats itself he accumulates more and mire negative behaviour points and is usually the 'highest scoring' child in the yr group. Never any destructive behaviour or physical aggression and as a person staff say he is very likeable, clever, funny..."if only he could focus".

External organisations - the behaviour outreach service. The plan they put together for him was fantastic and really got to the grain of the problem and how to address it. We are only one term in though. I feel there has not been a chance for it to work.

On his new plan it says there is a send passport but we have never seen it or been told about it. Is this the norm?

School told me EHCNA take too long and I can't remember now their reasons why they steered me away from the idea about a year ago. I feel like a trusting fool now.

I actually want to go in and ask for a small deferment until we get feedback on the adhd assessment (should be within a fortnight). I think that would be only reasonable?

Definitely looking up Sunshine Support. Had not heard of them. We just want him to be happy but have been trying for so long we feel we have lost direction and hope.

It has certainly reached the point of 'getting rid' now after no change in his behaviour. His pastoral team seem to want to help him and don't think a change and all the adjustments would be good for him. The external behaviour lady feels the same. But from the sounds of it the executive head has asked for this to happen. Not sure if she is aware of any background.

Fantastic bulletpoints. Thanks so much. This is exactly the sort of thing I needed. I like to feel prepared but this has been such short notice.

Regarding the turning point comment, I have thought about this. The school they'd probably propose for him is a clone of this one so it's no big change as such except that for DS and his struggles with change it wiuld be difficult and maybe make him worse for a while. It could be a set back at a time we are trying stuff withe the behaviour outreach team.

Good tips on how to approach the meeting. And also the follow up email.

What is a full educational record report?

Thanks again. You have no idea how much your post has helped me.

A few things to help:

Helping Our Teens, Series 1: Episode 1: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0g8c10s

This TV programme is a good starting point to understand what goes on in some schools. It has its faults, but I have found is helpful for parents to understand how students find school!

Re the behaviour, what have they specifically put in place to help him with the frustration - eg movement breaks, breaking down tasks, using a laptop? Have they followed all the recommendations from the behaviour team? Schools should treat any student on the pathway for assessment or diagnosis as though they already have a diagnosis unless there are very good reasons not to - perhaps ask what would be different if he had a diagnosis?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-exclusion

This document (section 48) covers managed moves and what schools should do when considering them. This is the guidance schools have to follow.

Schools guidance also says schools need to "have regard to the SEN code of practice". It is a very long document but can be useful to refer to

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7dcb85ed915d2ac884d995/SEND_Code_of_Practice_January_2015.pdf

In addition, local authorities must have regard to 'ordinarily available provision' which is information on what can be provided where needed as a matter of course within mainstream classrooms. It is worth googling your local authority and seeing what they say about managing ADHD! Then ask how much of it they have tried. I often find that when presented with this information, most schools.have not put even half of the recommendations in place!

This is the Surrey doc www.surreylocaloffer.org.uk/practitioners/resources/ordinarily-available-provision as an example.

Request an EHCNA yourself. Don’t let others put you off. The school should be providing more SEN support. There should be a SEN passport but you should already know about it and best practice would be to share it with you/get your input.

You can ask to reassess after the outcome of the ADHD assessment, but you need to be aware the school may exclude. It will also probably prompt the question why because support is based on needs so a diagnosis alone doesn’t change the support. And whether it is ADHD or not there is clearly SEN at play. IMO it would be better to focus on the lack of SEN support and requesting an EHCNA before jumping to a MM.

Accessing the school record via The Education (pupil information (England) Act 2005 only applies to maintained schools and NMSS. Many schools now are not maintained so it may not apply. A SAR can give more data anyway and covers all schools.

Hi,
An Educational Record is what all school have to keep on every pupil. It is a standard "data dump" everything from attendance data to records of intervention. For my daughter it was 76 pages of info. It provides the wealth of information they have built up but also allows you to see if "events" have been properly followed through. If one entry says "to be reviewed in 7 days" check that review was done. The act of requesting it shows you are monitoring what has been recorded and should focus their minds on making sure they follow the proper procedures. Regardless of how you request it DSAR or Quoting educational law you have a right to see it. They have 15 days to provide it for the standard request and 30 days if you go through a Data Subject Access Request (DSAR). Most schools will provide within a week. Request can be letter or email.

Balance the "fight" approach with "we both want what's best" approach and remind them what happens next could affect the most important person in all of this for the rest of their life. Seek out a compromise if there is one. Remember there aren't many truly bad people in education, the ones who are under pressure and think they have run out of options.

If you do go down the SAR route, if DS is deemed competent to consent, the request will need to come from him rather than you or he will need to give you permission to act on his behalf.

Just to update, if anyone checks back. The SLT didn't come to the meeting in the end 🤷🏻‍♀️ and there was instead a very constructive meeting with the pastoral team, where we agreed a few extra measures to help DS while we wait to see if there is a diagnosis. So with half term coming up, this helps us tide over for now, and put everyone in a position for a fair and reasonable look at what would be best for him, whether with or without ADHD in the picture. I don't know why the sudden change of approach from SLT...I have a theory but I'd be assuming.

I have to say that the messages I got last night made a huge difference to me. I was awake from 3.30, brain wide awake, reading them and forming an approach in my mind. Then I got up at 6 and wrote the bulletpoints and questions I needed to have with me at the meeting, and by the time we got to school I was feeling like wonderwoman, ready to battle them with polite common sense and knowledge 🙂 I have those notes ready in reserve now as well as some fantastic starting points to be proactive for DS now. I see there are some new messages too so will have a look through those to build my armoury.