ADHD and A Levels

[GoodStuffAnnie]

ds just got his gcse results - predicted 7/8 s got 5/6 s.

he did no revision without us making him / doing it with him. He had no independence. He hasn’t had any independence for years (would not do homework y8 onwards.)he also has tutors. I don’t know if we did the right thing supporting him so heavily.

he has adhd. I’m not clear in my head how much of him not achieving his potential is down to adhd and how much ‘him’.

im not sure if school supported him enough? What might this have looked like?

he wants to do a levels. We are not prepared to support him so heavily anymore. It was alot of work! I can’t understand how a child who did no work will suddenly start working.

im not really sure what I’m asking.

has anyone had a child who did no work / had no motivation suddenly get motivated?

have we not taken enough account of his adhd? How much of a barrier is it to success? I know how long is a piece of string.

does the adhd effect his motivation. He has no idea what he wants to do and will not commit.

He has passed all of his GSCEs - congratulations. I hear what you are saying about his potential. Does he have a decent SEN plan or EHCP containing different strategies to help with executive function deficits (might include help with organisation, memory, following chains of instructions, starting and moving between tasks, time management). Does he get extra movement breaks?

Is he taking medication?

Can I recommend Movers, Dreamers and Risk-takers by Kevin Roberts? It's a great book about unlocking the potential of people with ADHD, including questions of intrinsic motivation and hyperfocus.

There is no getting around the fact that the executive function dfficulties with ADHD can often make conventional approaches to studying really hard, and overall there is likely to be a considerable delay in these executive functions maturing (the rule of thumb is that these lag by around a third, so DS's functional capacity to use study skills may be more like an 11-12 year old). Which doesn't mean great things cannot be acheived, but does mean finding out what personal strategies help, and also exploiting areas of natural interest and letting DS explore that awesome ADHD ability to hyperfocus.

Are you sure A levels are the right path? Both grades wise and if DS doesn’t or can’t work outside of class.

Does DS have an EHCP? What support did the school provide? Did they support his executive function difficulties? Key worker/mentor? Maybe dropping a GCSE or 2 to complete homework during that time or focus on core subjects? Is DS on medication?

I took so long to post I X posted.

I am very grateful for both your responses.

He had / has a decent sen plan. he had lots of movement breaks. He did not get extra time in exams. He would rush his exams and not use the time allocated. He does not have an ehcp. He is not on medication.

ehcp - how do I know whether he would meet the threshold for one? (I am a teacher so know a bit about things).

I will buy the book.

He did drop a gcse. He was still messing around in class the week before they finished.

I am not sure a levels are the right course. We are totally open to other courses. He just has no interest in anything (school related). He doesn’t commit easily (to academic / school choices). We are leaning toward a levels / b tec at his school sixth form because they know him, he’s there 9-3, the classes are small. If he went to the FE technical college he would be with his friends who are like him (academically unmotivated). I am not a snob. Am totally open to it IF he was enthusiastic. We just feel with his lack of enthusiasm it could make things worse? I literally have no idea if this is right. He wants to stay at his sixth form.

I don’t really understand executive function deficit. I need to read up on it.

He is not an unmotivated teen. He loves fashion, he takes great pride in appearance (washes a lot), his room is tidy, he found and has a job, which he is working hard at. But academic / school work / job choices he is apathetic AND with regards to revision actively would argue about / delay and avoid.

I am really grateful for some people to help me understand / problem solve. Thank you.

He sounds great! (You should see my DS's bedroom...).

How do you both feel about medication? There 's an increasingly strong evidence base that it is effective for 70-80% of people. Might be worth a trial?

I think at this age, all you can do is help DC explore options, and really encourage their interests, then support their choices. If it doesn't work out, he can come back to it later. His brain and the skills needed to stufy effectively will still be developing - so he may just need a little more time than NT people.

And are you sure it is apathy (indifference), or could it be really chronic procrastination (compulsion to delay important tasks), which is a huge problem for a lot of ADHDers? If funds permit, you could explore the world of ADHD coaching, and see if you can find someone who works with young people. A couple of sessions could help with exploring choices and study strategies?

@OvertakenByLego will have a better answer than me on the EHCP question. The threshold for assessment is relatively low. The threshold to issue, following assessment, is usually around long term needs for educational things that cannot otherwise be provided by school.

I also think medication is worth trying as it may help.

Staying at the school sixth form sounds like a good idea. BTECs may be a better choice with 5s and 6s, but they require DC to keep up throughout the course. A levels would be difficult for someone who struggles to work outside of the classroom.

As @greyflannel posted, the threshold for an EHCNA is relatively low - has or may have SEN, and may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. It sounds like DS needs further support that he has been receiving and what would typically be expected at a SEN support level from sixth forms. For example, it sounds like OT would help DS. Whether via an EHCNA or otherwise, an ed psych assessment could help identify specific difficulties and how to support them, and also look at strengths. Comprehensive EP reports often highlight hidden needs, too. Something like Brain in Hand could help DS with organisation/planning. Although he is likely to need support with it to begin with.

I would definitely try medication. It's made a huge, HUGE difference for my DD.

Also, with an ADHD kid, you are best to play to their strengths and look outside the box if necessary. Agree with PP that the apathy is most likely extreme procrastination.

Have a look at BTECs and see if there is anything that would play to your child's strengths. Even though DD has 9/8 targets for GCSEs, she's already ruled out A levels and is looking at a few L3 extended BTECs and other courses in her main area of interest. I've been incredibly impressed with what is on offer and how the courses run. (She's doing one L2 BTEC instead of a GCSE and is absolutely loving the way the course is structured).

Thank you!

He is definitely going to do one btec, maybe 2. They don’t do btec diplomas or extended diplomas.

We have contacted 2 routes for medication and might decide to have a review for the therapeutic routes too (cbt coaching). I’ve spoken to a friend about her ds and mediation. I feel more confident. We are able to go private.

Im not pursuing an EHCP. It will be a fight and I’m not up for it.

Also need to research procrastination.

Thank you. It’s been a (small) turbulent week!

Highly recommend the book: A Parents Guide to ADHD Medication.

Easy read but detailed enough for those of us who want/need ALL the info.

Was a huge help having read it before DD was prescribed as it meant I didn't need to ask the psychiatrist all the questions I might have had otherwise.

We also haven't gone the EHCP route - DD already gets the extra time in exams due to dyslexia, and school seem to be understanding of DD's square peggyness and to be honest it's more tolerance of that which is more valuable to her than any interventions.

I do a lot of additional admin and use a lot of tech to keep her on track.

If there was an app that helped with tidying bedrooms that would be nice - otherwise threats and bribery are my only weapons.

Hi, I'm an A-level teacher. I wouldn't recommend 3 A-levels. I'd recommend BTECs. Maybe do the A-level in his strongest subject. I'd be concerned he'd do nothing in his study periods. BTEC is more structured.

Explore medication (the book ADHD medication: A Guide for Parents is very helpful). Be prepared to pay to get the medication.

Forget the EHCP. You won't get it in time now (sorry). Local authorities simply refuse to assess and then refuse to issue in most cases and it takes up to two years. You should look very carefully at SEN support at college or university though and make sure his SEN's detailed on his personal statement for UCAS.

A book I found helpful was Smart But Scattered.

You could also consider UpLearn if it covers the right A-levels. He might prefer that way of learning.

Forget the EHCP. You won't get it in time now (sorry).

It isn’t too late for an EHCP. They can last until 25, or 26 in some cases.

It's too late to use an EHCP to make a meaningful difference to 6th form then. Other strategies are going to need to be used.

An EHCP isn’t going to be in place for the start of this academic year, no. But, it isn’t necessarily too late for sixth form altogether. It is possible one could be secured during the 2 (or 3) years at sixth form and if necessary DC could resit sixth form with an EHCP. I have supported others who haven’t requested an EHCNA until post 16 and it has helped them.

The OP explained that she and her husband have had to work very hard to coach their son through GCSE. They are now faced with doing the same through A-level. I'm just not sure I'd wish EHCP paperwork stress on people in that position? I've been doing one for my 10 year old since last October and it's taken a huge chunk of my free time, cost thousands and we're still months off getting one.

If she was 16 I'd spend the money on tutors, UpLearn and medication tbh!

I was pointing out EHCPs are still a possibility and can still be helpful. Whether OP chooses to request one or not is obviously her choice. I was just pointing out it wasn’t necessarily too late. You might choose not to, others would and do, so I was giving the OP the information to make an informed decision.

You are quite optimistic though @OvertakenByLego?

You are quite correct of course but A-level is only 18 months of study really and most schools are not generally falling over themselves to offer SEN support in year 12 and 13. They are generally putting what resource they have into the younger ones.

I live this - every year I teach sixth formers who have fallen through the net and whose strategies start to fail them after 16 because the cognitive load is too great.

No, I don’t think I am too optimistic. I have supported thousands of parents on MN and IRL. Some do make the request post 16 and have an EHCP secured during A levels.

You also have to consider a scenario that isn’t uncommon - you don’t make the request now because you think it is pointless, then 6/12/18 months down the line the wheels fall off as you say and the placement breaks down. DC can’t cope. You are left needing to make a request then having lost 6/12/18 months that could have been spent securing an EHCP.

Oh well. I've taught quite a few sixth formers and I've never had one who got an EHCP during sixth form. Are there any national stats broken down by age - it must be rare? I've only taught in academically selective sixth forms though so that probably makes a difference.

But I definitely wouldn't recommend 3 A-levels for this young person. There are far too many kids doing A-level without the appropriate skills and interest. It's miserable for them, miserable for their parents and miserable for their teachers.

I agree with you about A levels.

You can see the stats here. It isn’t rare. Since 2015, the % of new EHCPs for post 16 pupils has ranged from 4.8% to 7.8%.

To give you an example from MN of a DC who didn’t get an EHCP until post 16 where it has been helpful look at @Punxsutawney‘s posts. (Hope you don’t mind me tagging you Punx.) There’s others on MN too and I have supported others IRL, too.

No worries Lego!
Phineyj, Ds got his first EHCP in year 12. I applied at the end of year 11. He was lockdown year and had not been in school since the March. He got good GCSE grades ( although did not take the exams). But had real struggles In mainstream, significant MH difficulties and a recent autism diagnosis.

Had to push the LA to assess....but they did and agreed to issue an EHCP ( it was crap though). Initially he was in a different mainstream sixth form, but couldn't manage and then was out of education . Again, had to push the LA, but we managed to get the them to agree to an expensive independent specialist SEMH/ASD placement without appeal or tribunal.

Previously Ds had spent all of his education in mainstream, including 5 years at a state selective grammar school.
In the end all professionals and the LA agreed that Ds needed the support that a specialist placement could provide.
I would have never imagined he would have needed an EHCP or a specialist placement. But he absolutely does, it's very obvious to all now. And at 19 the gap between him and his peers is much bigger than it once was.

He's meant to be starting A levels at his placement this September. He's agreed this with his tutor and staff. He still struggles with motivation and has had to extend his B-TEC as he couldn't finish it last term. I've got concerns about A Levels still.....but that's a whole different thread!

That's really interesting data!

It does show, however, that where EHCPs are issued, in over 95% of cases it's to an under 16.

I'm glad that things have worked out for your son eventually @Punxsutawney.

I have a friend whose younger son required extremely intensive support from the entire extended family to get through GCSE.

Sixth form went better as he could specialise in what he was good at.

He's now an internationally successful jazz musician 😀

I said the data ranges from 4.8% to 7.8%, but I don’t class at least 1 in 25 (and in some years nearly double that) new EHCPs as rare. The data is also skewed by less requests for post 16 pupils, so has to be viewed via that lens.

I am sure Punx won’t mind me saying, but initially she didn’t think it was worth requesting an EHCNA when others on the pub thread suggested it. Many people think the same.

Maybe we should leave it now as I feel we're derailing the thread a bit?

OP has said she doesn’t want to request an EHCNA, which is obviously her choice. I posted as many think it is too late post 16, but it doesn’t need to be, and it might be relevant for others reading.

Without derailing the thread, @OvertakenByLego is right. I wouldn't have applied for an EHCNA, if I hadn't had the advice and encouragement from experienced posters on MN. My own difficulties mean that I struggle to get support for Ds and I was lost. Same for PIP, I wasn't going to bother, as I didn't think he would qualify. Ds now gets enhanced daily living and mobility.

GoodStuffAnnie
I totally understand you not wanting to apply for an EHCNA, especially if Ds is well supported with an SEN plan. The option is there if anything ever changes.

I used to get frustrated with Ds's lack of motivation, as he's a very bright young man, I didn't understand why he presented the way he did. Now I can see that it's a mixture of his autism, rigid thinking, MH difficulties and struggles with executive functioning.
I'm not sure Ds will ever meet his potential. But that's okay, I'd just love him to be happy and as independent as possible . If the last few years have taught our family anything, it's that good MH is far more important than academics every will be.