EHCP support thread

[Phineyj]

My DD (10) is being assessed for EHCP. The council refused to assess (despite her already being diagnosed with ADHD, ASD, hypermobility and vision problems following eye surgery).

School have been supportive throughout and they are going above and beyond to keep her engaged in education.

She's about to go into year 6 though.

I took the LA to the tribunal and won.

They must produce the plan by 4th August. I think they probably will (they've stuck to deadlines so far...ish...). But I've got all the IPSEA complaint letter templates primed!

The hardest thing about the whole process is that no-one else in my life understands it or what it's like to spend all your free time essentially begging people to document the deficits your child has.

It is also a hard realisation that no-one cares much about your child's education except you.

I am also a teacher so I feel sad on behalf of the SEN DC I teach as I am told little about their needs (I spent a whole day doing DofE with one recently...I don't even know what her EHCP says...)

Join me if you are also grimly trekking through the EHCP jungle!!

Hi everyone. I feel horribly behind (and tbh I haven't read the rest of the thread because there's a LOT!) as I'm just starting out on the EHCP journey. It's my second request, and DD is in college now.

I have sent a letter (using IPSEA template) to the relevant department of LA and they have sent me a link to the EHC hub, where they have copied and pasted some bits of my letter into some of their form.
As far as I'm concerned I've proven the two points that pass their tests (that DD has SEND and needs extra support the college can't provide) so I'm hoping I don't need to jump through their hoops and fill in their form.
Is there anything I should be doing or can I just try to enjoy Christmas and wait for the reply in January?

Hello @QuickFetchTheCoffee, IPSEA’s model letter is enough to trigger the process, so you don’t have to complete the LA’s form instead if you don’t want to, but the LA may try to say you do. If you haven’t already, submit any evidence you have.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow it sounds better than many LA reports. Is small group defined? It often isn’t and your definition will not be the same as the LAs.

No it just says small group with specialist provision/ teaching.

My idea of a small group would be 6? Theirs is probably 20. But as an ex teacher l know class sizes can be massive.

@ThomasWasTortured Thanks, that's what I was hoping (because their form is a pile of 💩). I've submitted diagnoses of various (a bit dated now) but the main evidence is that she is on a Level 2 course after GCSE results would have suggested academic Level 3 and still can't/won't talk to anyone. She is just not progressing in the type of work she's expected to do in college.

@QuickFetchTheCoffee do you have other evidence from college etc? You will need evidence to prove the second part of the test.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow ask the LA to go back to the EP. It needs to be more detailed, specified and quantified. Both in terms of group size and also the who/where/what it consists of etc. because stating small group and specialist provision/teaching isn’t enough otherwise if that wording is used it won’t be enforceable.

I am clearly being naive but I thought the LA was obliged to ask the college for their input?
She's only been there since September and the "inclusions" team have been entirely uncoperative, telling me they can support DD and she doesn't need an EHCP. But DDs needs are clearly not being met as she has dropped down a Level from expected and isn't looking like she'll pass that either, nor is she interacting with anyone all day except her tutor (minimally).
Also do you know who should I be speaking to at college about evidence if they haven't done anything?

The LA should approach the college for their input. However, you shouldn’t rely on that because a) some don’t, and b) there is no guarantee the college will submit sufficient evidence - many give brief/incomplete/inaccurate information.

Submit (or rather DD should submit) a SAR to gather evidence. Are you following up verbal conversations with emails so you have a paper trail? Do you have information from changing course and the circumstances around it? If the inclusion/SEN team aren’t responsive have you spoken to DD’s tutor and if they aren’t helpful the vice principal or principal?

Has DD seen any HCPs?

I don't know what a SAR is. Googled it last time it was mentioned and still none the wiser!
I don't have a paper trail or emails from her changing course, there wasn't any.
I guess I would have to wait until the college opens again in January then ask Inclusions and if they won't help then contact the Vice Principal. DDs tutor is great but won't be much help I don't think.
Thanks for the help btw.

SAR = subject access request. A request someone can make to an organisation for some or all of the data they hold about them.

It is likely there will be a paper trail internally about the need to change course and DD’s difficulties. A SAR will give you this evidence.

Going forward, follow up all verbal conversations with emails so you have a paper trail as evidence.

If DD has had contact with HCPs other than the diagnostic reports a SAR to for evidence from those interactions could provide evidence too.

Thank you! Right okay I understand now. Not sure if any but the college would be useful. Maybe the physiotherapist. CAMHS have been beyond useless.

Thanks for the welcome all, reading and enlightening myself on next steps. Heartened and disheartened in equal measures too.

Back to the tribunal response.

Hello folks,

I am in the process of submitting the SEND35 form to the tribunal service. I am currently pulling together some additional evidence however want to get this sent off ASAP (conscious of deadlines and waiting on various parties).

For reference, my son is 4 and on the autism pathway so awaiting diagnosis of this. We applied for the EHCP assessment in June and received a decision a few weeks ago. The LA (North Yorkshire), decided that "the necessary provision to meet DS needs can be met without the need for an Education Health and Care Plan." We obviously disagree and have skipped mediation.

I have read all the information from IPSEA and SENDIASS but it seems a lot more details is required when challenging elements of an EHCP rather than challenging not issuing one.

As such, in section 3 I have answered as below, just a summary not the full wording!

Q1. I am bringing the appeal because (to be completed in all appeals):

This is an appeal against North Yorkshire Councils decision not to issue an “Education, Health & Care Plan." Their decision was that an EHCP is not required as "the necessary provision to meet needs can be met without the need for an Education Health and Care Plan." We disagree with this decision and therefore request that the tribunal considers the evidence provided and whether an Educational, Health & Care Plan should be issued.

It seems rather simple, but that is what SENDIASS referenced as sufficient?

Q4. The LA have not considered

Do I need to add here all the points I am concerned about via an attached sheet? I personally believe that the evidence speaks for itself, especially at this stage, however also don't want to miss anything and appreciate the need to draw attention where required! As evidence at the moment I have the below and will be adding to this (GP, Pediatrician, Local Schools & Nursery are all adding evidence for us).

Early Help Report
Educational Psychologist Report
Speech & Language Therapist Report

I have also enclosed our letter to request the EHCP as it was very detailed at the time and reference all of our concerns.

As the EHCP has been flatly declined, it is a bit tricky to reference what we think he will need (if that makes sense) but in essence, everyone we have spoken with medically and educationally has told us that he needs an EHCP and to be in a specialist setting long term.

I am also unable to find any "example" completions of the SEND35 form for these circumstances, so wondered what the general consensus was (IPSEA and SENDIASS explain somewhat but don't really show examples!)

I am also enquiring whether I qualify for legal aid going forward, which I think we may do.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully make sense!

The rest of the form I am confident about just those two points really!

Thank you!

@Coatsy is this an appeal against refuse to assess or refuse to issue? If the former, I used the guidelines on the IPSEA website to work out what to include.

Sorry, this is a refuse to issue appeal. The LA completed the assessment and deemed that an EHCP is not required (which we disagree with).

thanks!

OK, there is guidance on that on the Ipsea site too (not as detailed as for refuse to assess, but enough). I went through it with a highlighter and through the various reports I had and matched the evidence to the sections of the EHCP and explained why the provision recommended wouldn't be likely to be provided without one. It was a lot of writing!

Thank you 😊 I’ll have a look through IPSEA again. Appreciate that circumstances vary significantly, but roughly how much information did you provide to cover off that section?

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good, but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. Don’t worry if you don’t have all the evidence now, send what you have and you can send additional evidence later. If you need more space you can add see attached sheet. Some make their grounds of appeal very detailed, others don’t. Don’t worry, the form doesn’t have to be extremely detailed and you will be able to send additional evidence. Don’t waffle or go on about the history with the school/LA. What is your evidence like? If you need independent reports but you aren’t eligible for legal aid, Parents in Need can sometimes help.

I wrote as much as I thought was necessary but as @ThomasWasTortured implies, it's a "How long is a piece of string" question. My DC's older than yours so with age there's more to say, perhaps. The tribunal is dealing with loads of cases so I'm sure they appreciate conciseness and good indexing!

You can use Adobe Acrobat to collate everything and then cancel it before you get the bill...

@ThomasWasTortured thank you for the advice. We received it yesterday. I’m pretty pleased with it. It states clearly what she needs including speech therapy. It also says medication reviews on nhs. Is this a pysch?

Education has been left blank, but we are looking at options atm.

Education has been left blank

Do you mean section I (placement) has been left blank? I hope so and you don’t mean F (special educational provision - which is where SALT should be). Section I must be blank because it is a draft.

Unless a psychiatrist has been explicitly mentioned it doesn’t necessarily mean psychiatrist.

It is unusual for the initial draft to detail, specify and quantify all the required provision and include all needs so do check it carefully.

It has SALT details and ND groups mentioned. There seems to be 15 hours of support specified.

She’s under 18, so any medication would have to be reviewed by a pysch?

You should be able to tell for definite how many hours are in F. And the hours alone aren't enough. Neither is mentioning ND groups. Who (including training/qualifications/experience), what, when, where, how… all need to be explicit.

Again, unless a psychiatrist is explicitly mentioned, it isn’t enough. Plus, if DD is 17 now, she will be 18 before the first AR.

Obviously, I can’t say for certain because I haven’t seen the draft, but it is unusual for the initial draft to include all needs and required provision and be sufficiently detailed, specified and quantified, so you need to check carefully. The reason I mention this so much is many parents don’t realise their DC’s EHCP isn’t watertight until they need to try to enforce it and can’t.

Ok, thank you, I’ll pick it apart again.

Latest LA bod emailed to introduce herself today extoling her experience of 17 years as a SENCO and DSL in a primary. Not quite sure how that experience is useful to current new role as EOTAS coordinator and tbf my experience of SENCOs in mainstream has been mixed tosay the least.
Anyway I probably found her patronising introduction irritating so introduced myself in return
"Hello,Thank you for your email it's nice to have an introduction so I'm Hired, Mum to A and B who is also autistic and others who aren't. A is the youngest.

I've had the misfortune of dealing with your SEND dept for 27 years now since B secured his SSEN age three. I'd say it has been the single, most stressful, frustrating and soul destroying experience of having children and young people with SEND and certainly no other service has caused our family so much anguish and distress whether through lack of care, incompetence or unlawful behaviour so, going forward, I will only be responding to emails during school term times and any received at 5pm on a Friday won't be looked at until Monday. "

I'd say the lines are drawn now and we will see how we get on. She's unlikely to still be there this time next year or in the same role in six months time so not worried about longterm working relationships.

@hiredandsqueak woah, something for her to mull over during the weekend.

27 years!!!