EHCP support thread

[Phineyj]

My DD (10) is being assessed for EHCP. The council refused to assess (despite her already being diagnosed with ADHD, ASD, hypermobility and vision problems following eye surgery).

School have been supportive throughout and they are going above and beyond to keep her engaged in education.

She's about to go into year 6 though.

I took the LA to the tribunal and won.

They must produce the plan by 4th August. I think they probably will (they've stuck to deadlines so far...ish...). But I've got all the IPSEA complaint letter templates primed!

The hardest thing about the whole process is that no-one else in my life understands it or what it's like to spend all your free time essentially begging people to document the deficits your child has.

It is also a hard realisation that no-one cares much about your child's education except you.

I am also a teacher so I feel sad on behalf of the SEN DC I teach as I am told little about their needs (I spent a whole day doing DofE with one recently...I don't even know what her EHCP says...)

Join me if you are also grimly trekking through the EHCP jungle!!

Hi @TeaInTheGarden that sounds familiar. I don't think we had anything 6 weeks in (is that right re time?) that we hadn't organised and paid for. We did have everything by about 16 weeks in so I just kept contacting the various people I had numbers for a couple of times a week.

I don't know about CAMHS as we've had no involvement with them, but the IPSEA website has a suite of complaint letters for various purposes.

@TeaInTheGarden email the Director of Children’s Services.

SALT - it is irrelevant what kind of support their service usually offers. If the LA can’t assess in house/via the NHS within the timescales, the LA must commission independent advice. Same for OT (irrelevant they aren’t normally commissioned for sensory assessments) and EP, but I wouldn’t complain about this if you, the LA and the report writer deem the independent reports are sufficient. The independent assessments will be more detailed, specified and quantified.

CAMHS - anyone asked for advice should respond within 6 weeks. However, it is the LA who is responsible for ensuring information and advice is gathered. Same as above, if CAMHS cannot assess within the timescales, the LA must seek independent advice. When you requested the LA seek advice from CAMHS, were you more specific? You want advice from a clinical psychologist &/or psychiatrist. By only requesting the LA seek advice from CAMHS, it could be a band 2 support worker (nothing against them, but they can't give an adequate response for the EHCNA). Whether a report would add anything in addition to the EP report depends on DC’s needs and the other evidence you have, but potentially yes, particularly if DC needs MH therapies.

@ThomasWasTortured thank you, I’ve gone back to the LA today saying I expect independent reports from SALT and OT…. Will see where that gets me, won’t hold my breath!
Heard back from CAMHS today that they don’t consider he even needs an assessment. Terrible. So now I need to complain about that aswell! It was the LA who requested CAMHS not me actually, so I’m not sure who exactly they requested….
I have PALS dealing with my complaints about OT and SALT already, so I’ll email them now about CAMHS too….

Our draft EHCP has arrived two months late! most of it is illegible because the template is poorly put together. There's blocks of text layered over other blocks. Some whole blocks upside down. I can see why someone would be reluctant to share it.
The cover email is at least readable and says that consultations with the two schools we're hoping for can begin. So I guess somewhere in all the mess there's some good news.

I'm embarrassed for them, @listlesscat! Sending you a partly illegible document. There's no excuse for that these days, with free scanning and pdf-ing software.

And how are the poor schools supposed to be able to read the information?

Rah, we got a refusal to issue this week. So gutted, angry and sad. Apparently the school should be putting in reasonable adjustments. Then then asked me if I had thought of meeting with the school again when I said they were not doing all they should. Wow, why had I not thought of that myself? FFS, v patronising.

I do have a meeting with school on Mon re GCSE options and stuff that I think I have had to ask for about ten times. I have been asking since early Oct. It will be another fight.

I am so depleted, why are schools and LAs so crap? Don't they want the same as us in terms of wanting children and young people to do well?

@purplepandas we had a new sendco in September. When she asked for a meeting, I took the opportunity to highlight what was needed! I sat down with our LA "ordinarily available inclusive practice" document and went through it page by page. I created a document with sections for the four areas of need in the send code of practice - communication and interaction, cognition and learning, semh, sensory and physical. I then wrote her difficulties under each section and cut and pasted the things listed under "ordinarily available support for children and young people in mainstream settings". This section gives strategies that could be used by schools to support need.

It was a very comprehensive document 🙂 but I then highlighted all the things currently had in place (all three of them!). Which left 46 for them to work on 😯

The meeting went well and the sendco accepted this with good grace. I told her I was contemplating applying for an echp but it was clear that the LA would say that school was not providing enough support.... She agreed that the evidence I had clearly showed there was much more that could be done. We are working our way through it 😁

If a school does not have the resource to support as required, they need to address this with SLT, or the LA, not simply do nothing.....

I am happy to share this if it would help - pm me if so.

Appeal. The vast majority of appeals are upheld.

It is possible to get an EHCNA even when the school could do more but won’t.

Schools must make their best endeavours to meet a pupil’s SEN. The problem is the lack of funding and resources means what they can reasonably offer at a SEN support level now is more limited than previously.

Thanks @handmademitlove and @ThomasWasTortured . I know I will bounce back. They are so shit. The LA sent me a letter on Thurs with no docs (they referenced attaching them) and their communication has been abysmal.

THe advice I got from someone was to go to mediation and then put in another request as that will be quicker than tribunal (about a year here currently). I won't let it go.

Have a meeting with school tomorrow and not feeling sufficiently on top of it all to do a good job. I always feel like I am going into meetings on the defence and I hate that. Why can't it be more discursive and not 'a battle'?

@purplepandas Personally, I wouldn’t bother with mediation. Just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST. LA’s use mediation as a delaying tactic. If they are going to concede they will do so regardless of whether you actively partake in mediation or just get the certificate.

You also need to be aware if you reapply and the LA refuse to assess there isn’t the right of appeal if there has been a needs assessment within the previous 6 months. That’s not to mention even if they did assess there is no guarantee they would issue. Then you may still have to appeal and wait a long time. IMO, reapplying instead of appealing is the wrong decision.

Is DS attending school full time? If not you can request an expenditure hearing. Still a wait, but not a year.

Expedited hearing?

Thanks both. DD is in full time (mostly!). I did not realise that about appealing @ThomasWasTortured . i am now paying someone to help and that was their suggestion. i feel like this is such minefield and a game when it should be about supporting children and young people.

Thanks for the advice both, I will ponder and question. We are still waiting on a S&L assessment anyway...

@purplepandas I agree. I would have been very glad to sit down with someone knowledgeable from the LA at any point in the last 3 or 4 years and have a conversation about my DD's educational needs and what would be best to do to meet them.

Instead what I've got is all the help we can afford to source and pay for ourselves, and an unpaid part time job essentially doing legal work (because that's what the EHCP system is).

The idea that they actually have such a knowledgeable person is fantasy though. When DD was coming up to primary age the LA hadn't even got enough primary school places for the number of kids in the age group. And when I was googling for useful stats for my first appeal I found a "SEN sufficiency statement" (from pre pandemic) for the LA showing clearly that they "export" their SEN education (especially for autism) to neighbouring LAs.

And my LA haven't even got a particularly poor reputation for SEN! They're not horrible or aggressive - just passive and clueless.

The knowledge that I will eventually get what DD needs because I've got the education and the money to apply strategically makes me feel sick. What a system!

@purplepandas is it an advocate you are using or solicitor? Be careful if the former. There are some excellent ones, but advocates are an unregulated business and there are also poor ones who do more harm than good. Personally, I think it is poor advice.

@Phineyj , you are do right. It's a total shit show all round isn't it. Like you, I know of LAs with worse reputations for SEN which I find worrying. As you say, it is on us to sort ourselves and do unpaid work.

@ThomasWasTortured , thank you, I am totally hearing what you are saying. It is an advocate and not a solicitor ( well known and respected). I will absolutely be questioning this advice now, I am v v grateful.

@purplepandas I would be asking what makes them think the LA’s decision will be different next time? And how sure are they the LA’s decision will be different? Because unless certain you risk wasting time and still needing to appeal anyway. Even if you wait 6 months, how sure are they the LA will agree to assess again? Otherwise you risk needing to appeal refusal to assess and then also refusal to issue. Further delaying matters.

Being lawfully able to refuse a NA if one has been undertaken within the last 6 months is in this IPSEA document (not my LA). It is in s36 CAFA 2014.

@purplepandas sorry for the multiple posts. I have found out IPSEA’s full refusal to assess pack for you. Under 2.3 it states “Note: you have no right of appeal if the LA has carried out an EHC needs assessment in the past six months.”

Thanks @ThomasWasTortured , this is all so helpful. I realise that I didn't mention waiting the six months ( in fairness to the advice). I totally hear your point about what would make the LA decision change.

Going to tackle school meeting first and then regroup.

I am v v grateful.

@purplepandas if you are going to wait 6 months to request another EHCNA so you have the right of appeal if the LA refuse to assess it will only be slightly quicker than appealing now but with the risk that you may end up appealing once or twice anyway.

1 year ish for an appeal
VS
6 months wait to re-request an EHCNA then 20 weeks for the LA to finalise if they are going to issue (and that’s if none of the exceptions apply, the LA stick to the timescales without you enforcing them and they agree to assess and issue).

We’ve just received our independent EP report. LA have missed their timescales so have agreed (before seeing it) to work with the independent report when it arrives. (I spoke directly to principal EP about it after caseworker was unhelpful)

Just getting my head round the report- EP saying son (autistic age 5, expert masker) needs 25 hours support, detailing the qualifications of the adult etc, aswell as “consistent” access to SALT and OT 1:1 support….

If LA have agreed to use this report, how likely is it that these things make it into the EHCP? Are they likely to write less, tone it down etc? I know I can appeal if they do, but wondering how much they just go along with reports, or how likely it is they don’t? The wording is all “requires” etc, don’t think it’s woolly.

Thanks for any advice on this 🤞🏻

The LA may be selective in what they cherry pick out of the report, unfortunately. They often like to paraphrase as well to water down provision. If the report uses “access to” it is too woolly and you should ask for it to be amended.

@ThomasWasTortured here’s a bit of it, it does state “access to” but I can go back and ask for amendments. Too woolly?

If your child needs constant support from a 1 to 1. Then 25 hrs 1 to 1 doesn't cut it in mainstream education. Also, doesn't specify whether he needs someone to watch him lunch / break times. When they going to cut off the full time support? I could be totally wrong but thats one of the reasons I went to tribunal to gain access for full time 1 to 1.

I think it's 32.5 hrs for full time for state mainstream. If your school is an independent mainstream it's a lot longer hrs (45😳 1 to 1 as it's a LOT longer days 🤪)

I'd check it out - like I say I could be wrong .... but that was one main reason for our tribunal to clarify the hrs of the 1 to 1 support

Thanks @fedupallthisrubbish
i don’t think he needs a full time 1:1 for safety or behavioural reasons. Reading the report there’s nothing like that in there and I do agree. Basically at school he masks so is beautifully behaved, and is very bright, so think the 1:1 support is to ensure he’s making correct progress as well as learning emotional regulation, social skills etc.
he has sensory processing difficulties and communication issues, hence the suggestion of SALT and OT being involved, but to me it seems a bit unlikely to happen in a mainstream school. And I don’t think he would benefit from a special school, so I’m a bit worried about where this leaves us….

@TeaInTheGarden pupils in MS can receive SALT and OT provision.

An EP report won’t detail, specify and quantify SALT and OT provision to the extent that is needed for section F. For that, you will need SALT and OT assessments. Looking at the rest of it, the other wording is too woolly. For example, “Access to” needs removing. What is the “training”? It could be a 5 min presentation at an in-service training day 5 years ago. Who is the “adult”? The receptionist, cleaner, dinner lady? It doesn’t actually state exactly what the provision will entail. As a basic starting point, have a read of this.