NHS SALT discharge despite it being in EHCP and agreed at AR

[Lesley25]

Hi

My son has severe additional needs and a complex EHCP.

I have just been told that the NHS salt is moving towards a more “advisory”
role as per the email and since my son is using his aac device with help from school and training, they wish to discharge him from nhs salt?

is this allowed? We’ve just agreed the AR paperwork and My sons EHCP , can they do this?

I’ve sent a strongly worded email to the nhs salt team and ccd everyone saying I do not support this, but what rights do I have now?

shall I go straight to sendo and children's educational commissioner?

Is the SALT provision detailed, specified and quantified in F?

If so, email the LA’s Director of Children’s Services reminding them the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F must be provided under s.42 CAFA 2014 and if they fail to provide it you will be forced to pursue judicial review proceedings. If it is in F it is ultimately the responsibility of the LA, not the NHS, even if the LA have to commission independent provision.

Unfortunately, if it isn’t detailed, specified and quantified in F &/or the wording is vague and woolly it isn’t enforceable, and you should try to tighten the wording up. If you are still within the appeal window following the AR you can do this via appealing. If you no longer have the right of appeal you will need to request an early review in order to try to get the right of appeal. Sadly, the LA doesn’t have to agree to hold an early review, and if they refuse there’s no right of appeal. So, if that happened you would need to either wait for the next AR or request a reassessment of needs which does have the right of appeal if refused.

Thanks @ThomasWasTortured it’s all in the EHCP section F , I think I’ll send this up the chain and remind them of the law you stated.

I appreciate this, thank you very much,

I've just had a similar situation whereby the NHS tried to remove a therapy that was quantified and specified in my DS's EHCP. They also wanted to move to a more 'advisory' footing of 'termly visits' from Sept. rather then the weekly sessions he's been having.

I had to email them quoting the page and lines in his EHCP which stated that: 'DS must have weekly X therapy for 40mins provided by a person trained in X'.
(Trying to be a bit vague as it's a bit outing.)

Once I could show them that, they backed down. Sadly I think it's becoming all too common for services to try this as resources become more scarce.

I’m afraid I have an EHC with very specific provisions quantified and my LA has been dragging their feet for months not providing them, claiming “they’re coordinating.” The law is very specific that it is the LA’s responsibility to provide these provisions. Typically, your LA has a contract with the NHS to provide them but these days there are so few therapists available that LAs outsource them to independent individuals/companies.

Write that you’ve been made aware by NHS they will no longer be the provider from x date and ask who will be?

You CANNOT yet mention judicial reviews. First get them in writing to confirm whether provisions are being outsourced or if not, why not. They will probably say we’re working on it. Remind them that’s not the law. They’ve had notification and it’s their duty to find alternative arrangements.

Then you need to file a formal complaint. Usually pointless and takes 20 business days.

After that if provisions are still not being delivered, you tell case worker with cc to the LA’s general council that you’ve tried in good effort, their complaints system didn’t resolve anything, you don’t wish to escalate as you’ve lost faith (there’s always a stage 2 escalation that draws it out another 1-2 months) and that you have no choice but to draw up a pre action protocol letter.

These aren’t free, you can’t really do them yourself but you might get help from a charity like SoS!Sen who will either guide you to a solicitor or may do it for a fee. Contact them through their website as their lines are always busy.

Your other option is the ombudsman, but they won’t touch it until at least 3 months passed from your formal complaint.

Yes you can at this point threaten to pursue judicial review proceedings if the LA fails to provide to provision detailed, specified and quantified in F, sometimes the mere threat is enough. You don’t need to wait for the formal complaints process to finish as that would be too slow a remedy in this instance.

My point is writing to them mentioning judicial review at this early of a stage will get your complaint to not be taken as seriously.

She doesn’t even know that provisions won’t be met. She’s only been told by the NHS that they will no longer be the provider.

To be threatening the literal last resort at such an early stage isn’t advice that you’ll get from any charity or a private advocate. But if you want to go nuclear and be taken seriously, then you need to
1/ explain why the complaints procedure would be too slow a remedy in this particular case, and

2/ you warn them that you will be issuing a pre-action protocol letter, not that you’ll “ be forced to pursue judicial review proceedings.” 99% gets sorted with a pre-action protocol letter. But again, those cost.

more advice here

https://sossen.org.uk/whats-judicial-review/

My point is writing to them mentioning judicial review at this early of a stage will get your complaint to not be taken as seriously.

I disagree, having supported hundreds of parents on MN and IRL to enforce their DC’s EHCPs showing the LA you know the law and will enforce it gets you taken more seriously. That isn’t “going nuclear”.

She doesn’t even know that provisions won’t be met.

Which is exactly why I posted “if they fail…”

1/ explain why the complaints procedure would be too slow a remedy in this particular case

No, I don’t. You may want to, but I don’t need to when I wasn’t drafting the OP an email, I was writing a post on a forum. Following the complaints process isn’t a suitable remedy due to the time it takes whilst OP’s DS isn’t receiving the SEP he needs and thus not having his needs met.

Quote from SOSSEN’s page you linked to: “JR is a remedy of last resort. It should be used only after all other efforts to work with the Local Authority to resolve the issue have failed. This includes, for example, ensuring you have used the Local Authority’s formal complaints process where this could provide a realistic remedy – however, it is not a realistic remedy if it would be too slow, for instance, when a child is out of school unlawfully, or is not receiving full time education, or if the child’s special educational needs are not being met.”

Another quote from SOSSEN’s page: ”Should I write to the LA’s complaints department?”
”Probably not. If you write to the complaints department, the official complaints procedure will kick in and that will be much slower; also this could be treated as an admission that there is an alternative route to dealing with your claim, which would make JR inappropriate as it is supposed to be used only as a last resort. This does not prevent you raising a complaint at a later stage, e.g. about overall delay.”

2/ you warn them that you will be issuing a pre-action protocol letter, not that you’ll “ be forced to pursue judicial review proceedings.” 99% gets sorted with a pre-action protocol letter. But again, those cost.

No, I don’t. The LA will know exactly what pursuing JR proceedings entails, I don’t need to explain that on a forum when I wasn’t drafting the OP an email. If the OP wanted supported writing an email she would ask, either on the thread or via PM.

Thanks for responding at @Nekoness and @Toomanyminifigs

but after my sons had to move to many provisions and going all the way to tribunal and winning, i only really know how to go ape shit to get what my son needs.

@ThomasWasTortured I have said I am
going to seek a judicial review and I’ve ccd the children’s educational commissioner in the email.
I’ve sent the email, received a response from the SALT team that it’s being passed up the chain.
How long do you think I leave it before asking if my son will in fact be discharged at the end of term or will his NHS salt continue? I’m thinking Friday . I could’ve kicked myself for not stating I’d like a reply by Friday.

I would give them a week before emailing again.

BTW I don’t think showing the LA you will advocate for DS and enforce his rights is going “ape shit”. You can, and I know you will have, be polite and professional whilst also demonstrating you won’t be taken for a fool. Knowing your previous posts is why I didn’t feel the need to teach you to suck eggs in my pp, I know you know what you are doing and the JR process - I’m the poster (NC’ed) who was the one discussing SN colleges with you a while ago.

@ThomasWasTortured I recognised the style of your writing straight away. I always really value your advice so thank you.

Is ThomasWasTortured a solicitor? Sorry, I’ve been off mumsnet for a while so I’m a bit surprised to be lectured about how my real life experience is “wrong” by a stranger on the internet.

“Judicial review” solicits no response in our LA but hopefully yours is less shite than ours.

I think I’m remembering why I left this site.

I’m a bit surprised to be lectured about how my real life experience is “wrong” by a stranger on the internet.

Ironic given that is exactly what you did to me. I wasn’t “lecturing” you, I was responding to your post on a discussion forum after you told me I was wrong when I’m not.