Specialist or mainstream school

[Locki]

Hi everyone, I’ve seen some excellent advice in here so hoping I could get some ideas/ thoughts! Our DD has just turned 3 and we are thinking ahead to schools. She was assessed as having ‘severe’ social and communication delay by SALT a few months ago. We have a private ADOS booked for next month and most the professionals who have been involved in her care privately feel she has ASD. Her current situation is that she her understanding is limited to very simple instructions such as sit down or no but needs repeated instruction and is very easily distracted/ not consistent with her response and has a lot of echolalia. She does not really play or initiate interactions with other children but will tolerate parallel play. We moved her from a busy private nursery to a childminder with very small ratios recently and have seen lots of improvement. She now responds to her name, uses a handful of single and two word phrases functionally and her understanding is incrementally improving. She also seems a lot happier in herself. I know that the normal applications for schools start in Sept which is not too long away but think we will need to apply for an EHCP. But I don’t know if mainstream even with lots of support would be the right place for her although I get the impression reading other posts we may be pushed toward that. It’s hard to predict what she will be like by next Sept and what her needs will be. But equally I hear the EHCP process takes a long time so we should get the ball rolling early. Has anyone been through a similar situation before and can shed some light on what you went for/ how it worked out? She seems so much better in a smaller setting but I’m getting quite worried about how a sudden transition into 30+ classrooms would work out. Does the EP make recommendations as to the type of setting that would be appropriate? I did contact a few mainstream schools about their nursery for this year and most the SENCOs I spoke to seemed a bit horrified at the prospect of us applying so I’m wondering if mainstream is a bit unrealistic! Thank you in advance 😊

I would definitely get the ball rolling on the EHC Assessment, as, like you say, they take months.
You won't be asked which schools you would like to be approached until well into the process.
In the meantime, start researching your options. I always advise not to fix on if it is mainstream or special, but which, of all possible options is the best for the child.
There are some brilliant mainstream schools, there are some awful ones, and most are somewhere in between. Special schools vary massively - not so much in whether they are 'good' or not, but in terms of the population they serve. In some places there are specialist schools for different needs, and in others, there are fewer schools so more of a mix of needs.
In many authorities there are nowhere near enough places available for the dc that need them / families that request them. If you are in an area like that (and who isn't ?) it is worth remembering that you aren't necessarily going to get the place you want and that it is worth while having a list of possibilities you would consider, so you are ready when they ask you which school(s) you want.
Don't forget Resource Bases too, which might appeal.

@Kite22 thank you for the helpful response! I should have been more specific but she would be starting school Sept 2023 so I thought we should wait a bit to apply for EHCNA- or do you think we should start now? Our borough has x2 specialist schools which cater specifically for children with ASD and they have all told me they need a formal diagnosis in place so I’ve been waiting for this. I’m sure you are right that they have less spaces than what is needed though. We’ve been told our DD will be assessed under NHS within next few months and she has a private assessment next month so I thought it would be useful to have this in place before we apply?

Kite’s advice is good. Don’t wait to apply for an EHCNA. The process takes 20 weeks unless you have to appeal, but sadly many do have to appeal, sometimes more than once. Appeals are taking a long time at the moment due to lack of court time. You want to give yourself as much time as possible in the hope you have finalised by the normal admissions deadline in January 2023 otherwise you need to submit a normal application too - if you need to go through appeal(s) you would be pushing it for time.

You don’t need a diagnosis to apply for an EHCNA or get an EHCP, they are based on needs. ASD specialist school often need a diagnosis but DD’s primary placement won’t be finalised until next year, so it’s not a problem now.

@Locki

Absolutely apply now for an EHCNA. As PP above said the process can take up to 20 weeks and that's assuming you don't have to appeal.

If you have to appeal it will take much longer. I was reliably informed this week that parents appealing now are getting hearing dates for September and October.

Information and model letter here:

www.ipsea.org.uk/ehc-needs-assessments

@AReallyUsefulEngine @Ellie56 thank you for your responses. The SENIDASS advisor told me to wait until Sept but looks like we should apply now! I’ve also been told (on a local SEN email forum), that we should try get private reports for SALT/ EP/ OT as needs are more likely to be specified/ quantified than the council commissioned ones? Is this something you have heard of? If so do you know when we should get this done in the process? It’s going to cost an awful lot of money but don’t want to end up with an EHCP that’s not worth the paper it’s written on either ☹️ I spoke to the headmistress of one of our local schools and she implied that a lot of the EHCPs were so vague that they didn’t actually equate to the children getting the support they needed- which is worrying me!

Don’t wait! If you don’t apply until September you definitely wont have a finalised EHCP before the normal admissions round closes so you will have to apply via the normal admissions round as a back up. And if you don’t apply until September if you have to appeal multiple times you may not have a finalised EHCP for Sept 2023.

Be careful with SENDIASS, some are good but too many give incorrect advice and repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. They receive LA funding so aren’t completely independent. IPSEA and SOSSEN are better.

Unless you are lucky independent assessments are likely to be more detailed, specific and quantified, but, personally, unless money isn’t a problem then I wouldn’t bother getting independent reports just yet. If the LA agree to an EHCNA SALT, OT and EP reports can be part of that. Then if you need to appeal you can target what assessments you need e.g. the LA’s EP report may be adequate but you may need an independent OT. This also means you don’t risk the report being considered out of date by the time you get to Tribunal - previously reports within 2 years were consider up to date but recently some have found SENDIST consider their reports out of date when younger than that.

a lot of the EHCPs were so vague that they didn’t actually equate to the children getting the support they needed

Sadly, this is true, unless you are on the ball and know what wording to pull the LA up on. For example, many parents think “access to SALT” or “1:1 or equivalent” means it will be given, but they aren’t enforceable.

To add to Ellie’s post, many are finding their first hearing date adjourned due to lack of court time.

@Locki my DD seems to be the same age as your little one, and im in the same boat regarding schools. Have you started your Ehcp process and if so how hard was it to do.

tia my little one starts school sept 23 and im scared abt making the right decision

@121314mum sorry to hear you are having a similar dilemma with schools. Our DD is actually starting at a specialist nursery managed by our council tomorrow. From what I’ve been advised she will have SLT, OT and Ed Psych assessment organised by them and they will apply for the EHCNA/ EHCP in the coming months. I was advised by her keyworker it was best the let the nursery handle the EHCP process as they are very experienced in the process. I’m really sorry I can’t give much more information about the it all as we haven’t gone through it yet. We have started to look at schools in mainstream/ specialist and ARPs but hard to know what she will be like in 1 years time. She’s made progress in some areas and gone backwards in others! Good luck with everything x

Hi

I hope for the best, but would really advise based on my experiences to apply for a EHCP now. The legal bar for assessment is low and it sounds like would be easily met, even if you have to go to appeal. You may need to go through multiple appeals all of which will take a lot of time. It took about nine months from my dc EHCP being issued to the tribunal date. During that time, your daughter and you may be struggling in a school that is not appropriate.

You can apply yourself and, in my experience, would need to drive it to a satisfactory outcome. Think carefully about having a school or nursery do it and would bear in mind that there is a lot of misinformation out there among schools, key workers and so on.

Wishing you all the best

Rollingupahill I agree. Waiting to apply could turn out to be a costly mistake. With the length of time appeals are taking waiting could result in not having a finalised EHCP prior to starting reception.

It also means, particularly if you are wanting a SS, there is a higher chance the LA will be able to prove the school is so ‘full’ placing another pupil there would be incompatible as the placement would be being finalised after the main allocations.

There’s no need to wait for SALT, OT and EP assessments before applying, these should form part of the EHCNA.

@AReallyUsefulEngine yes and in any event I find it strange if it is being proposed that the assessments would be done prior to the EHCNA as the fact the child needs to attend a specialist nursery would be enough to meet the legal bar for an assessment. Notwithstanding that, if the OP wants a particular school, it will likely be necessary to obtain independent assessments.

The OP is being fobbed off. Firstly by SENDIASS saying applying September, and now we are September saying the nursery will apply once assessments are complete in the coming months.