EHCP agreed for DD (17) - advice needed please on draft plan (which I think may not be fit for purpose)

[MuddlingThroughWithoutAClue]

Apologies that this is going to be longwinded - any insight and advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Received draft EHCP yesterday and I don’t think it good enough - lots of info but nothing quantified. I find the format quite confusing also and don’t really know where and how to start addressing the problems.

I have got the IPSEA and SOSSEN checklists but still feel fairly overwhelmed by the layout and wording.

DD(17) has a diagnosis of Generalised anxiety disorder with panic, low mood and social communication disorder (referred for ASD assessment). She rarely leaves the house due to high levels of anxiety and struggles to be around other people. Friendship difficulties in year 9 triggered school anxiety and year 10 was difficult and then the pandemic struck and school went online. DD was unable to return to school in year 11 despite reasonable adjustments (reduced timetable, dropping of subjects, safe place etc) and had medical needs tuition for the last few months of year 11 and was awarded one GCSE. DD is currently repeating year 11 via medical needs tuition - her lessons are virtual 1:1 live lessons. I am aware that the LA have no statutory duty to ensure education for post-16 students without an EHCP hence I need to get this right.

Applied for EHCNA in May and were refused. Put together with more info and a private EP report and LA agreed to assess when they received our appeal info. They refused our requests for SaLT, OT and clinical psychologist to be carried out as part of EHCNA stating that they didn’t make referrals and could only ask services if they had had prior dealings with/knowledge of DD. Used IPSEA model letter quoting SEN regs to no avail and also complained to director of childrens services - had a reply to say that children/YP had usually accessed all the services they needed by the time an EHCP was requested but that perhaps they should look again at their processes in the future as this might not be the case in a minority of children/YP! We were therefore surprised they agreed to issue an EHCP.

We received the draft plan yesterday and nothing is detailed or quantified. The covering letter states that we have 15 days to respond and name a school setting. Do we now enter into a negotiable with the LA over educational setting and content of the plan? Does that stop the clock or is there a time limit?

DD needs 1:1 lessons at home to try and get her GCSE’s (she is currently studying for 4) - how do I ask for this?

Section B (SEN needs) talks about DD’s significant anxiety but doesn’t mention panic, low mood or social communication difficulties.

Section C (Health needs) lists them all

Section D (Social care needs) - states “no needs identified”. I requested a social care assessment and the result was a referral to Early Help and we have subsequently had a TAF meeting (this was after the deadline for EHCNA evidence to be in).

Section E (Outcomes) - the plan talks in terms of outcomes sought by the end of the current Key Stage or phase of education. Do these outcomes change at reviews to reflect different stages of education? Also Preparation for Adulthood states “no outcomes identified” and I’m not sure that’s correct at age 17?

Section F (Special Educational Provision) - this is mainly seems to have been copied from the EP reports and is full of wording like “opportunities to”

Provision and funding for this is stated as “*Teaching and support staff from ordinarily available and top up funding”

Sections G, H1 & H2 -* all “none identified”

Section K isn’t complete and doesn’t include all the information we submitted with our appeal including the Independent EP report which the draft refers to at times.

I think I need to contact the LA and:

1. Question why there is missing evidence from section K
2. Tell them we can not name a school setting as DD needs 1:1 lessons at home (virtually or in person).
3. As that section F is quantified - ask them to go back to the LA EP for this information? (or ask the independent EP we used to be more specific - I don’t know why she didn’t or why I didn’t question it)
4. Should the CAMHS therapy DD is receiving be listed somewhere?

What else should I be questioning? Can I ask for mentoring to be included? Can I ask that more evidence is taken into consideration? E.g DD now has a care coordinator and is having weekly therapy, we’ve had the early help TAF meeting, letter from CAMHS medic requesting in support of exam access arrangements suggests that DD takes exams at home or in a room on her own due to high anxiety levels etc

Thank you

As you know, refusing OT, SALT and clinical psychologist assessments was unlawful.

All educational needs should be in B, so that needs amending.

Everything should be detailed, specific and quantified otherwise the EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on. Vague and woolly wording such as “opportunities for” need rewording. However, if the reports are vague and woolly this is difficult because provision is taken form the reports. You need to ask the LA to go back to the report writers to make them detailed, specific and quantified. It is appalling your independent EP didn’t produce a detailed, specific and quantified report. It is much easier to get this sorted from the beginning, even if that means appealing, than trying to tighten it up at a later date.

Don’t worry about funding, it isn’t your concern. As long as provision is detailed, specific and quantified it can be enforced. If DD’s placement needs more money they should approach the LA.

Anything that ‘educates or trains’ should be in section F, so it is enforceable. This includes MH therapies such as CBT, art therapy etc. More general psychiatrist reviews should be in G.

Why does G not have provision in if health needs have been identified in C? Section D should have DD’s social care needs in, and H the corresponding provision to meet those needs. All reports should be in K.

The EHCP will be updated at annual reviews, or early reviews if necessary, so outcomes etc. will change over time.

All identified needs should have provision and outcomes. However if there is PfA provision in section F don’t worry too much about there not being any outcomes. It is section F that is important.

Don’t say you can not name a preferred placement, you ask for tutoring by requesting EOTAS. In this case section I should be left blank and the provision included in F. Unfortunately, given the EHCPs lack of provision and vagueness I fear even if you get EOTAS agreed it will be little more than tutoring.

The 15 days is for you to make representations and name your preference for section I. Do not go back and forth negotiating content or placement, even if you have further information, it does not get you far, especially without all the necessary assessments. It is far better to push the LA to finalise, get the mediation certificate and appeal B, F and I if necessary. If you do appeal just get the mediation certificate rather than actually participating in mediation, so as not to waste time - LAs use mediation as a way to delay. If the LA are going to concede they will do so anyway. The LA must finalise within 20 weeks. From your post you are going to need to appeal if you want a worthwhile EHCP.

If you do appeal you can ask SENDIST to look at health and social care provision too. Whilst the recommendations aren’t binding if the CCG/LA do not follow them they have to write to you and SENDIST explaining why, and depending on specifics you can either complain to the LGO or begin Judicial Review proceedings.

SOSSEN have a draft checking service if that’s something you would be interested in.

Thank you for your detailed reply @Imitatingdory

Yes I am aware that the LA acted unlawfully in refusing the reports we requested. DD has had NHS SaLT assessment since but I haven't received a report as yet. I don't think there will be much in it as the therapist said DD had done really well, didn't appear to have any issues with inference (directly contradicting EP) but suggested planning scripts ahead of situations would be helpful.

CAMHS have referred to OT for sensory assessment but not heard anything. I have found an independent OT who'd can assess and write a report - no space until January but that should be fine with the SENDIST appeal timescales. I'm not totally sure how useful this report would be i.e. whether or not DD has significant sensory needs.

Ironically the LA EP suggests an OT referral to investigate sensory needs (which they have copied from the independent EP report)!

The independent EP report seems very detailed in what DD needs but not frequency and amount of time that should be spent or who with. At the time I was lucky to find an EP with availability and mainly wanted the report to secure a needs assessment. I could go back to her and ask her to add more detail I suppose (and should have at the time) but it is most likely to late as you say. I didn't expect the LA EP report to regurgitate word-for-word parts of the independent EP report .

I have composed an email to the LA to ask for amendments to the sections above and requesting they go back to the report writers and seek quantified and detailed recommendations. I have also stated that we are requesting tutoring via EOTAS.

To be honest the tutoring is the main thing I want from the EHCP but if there's an opportunity to get a more comprehensive plan then it would be foolish not to try. For MH therapies DD is currently seeing her care coordinator for weekly therapy sessions and is just about managing (CBT was deemed too intensive for DD to manage at the moment). Do the MH therapies named in the EHCP have to be specific because I'm not sure what they would be?

I am aware of SOSSEN's draft checking service thank you. I toyed with the idea but at this stage even I can see that the draft is a bit rubbish! SOSSEN can check the reports and the draft but I'm guessing the reports aren't good enough in the first place and it's a lot of money to pay to find out something I already know. I would jump at the draft checking and re-writing service if I believed the reports were good enough but I need to work out where best to spend the money I can afford most efficiently.

I wish I could just hand this whole process to someone else to do as it's just one hurdle after another and my understanding is inadequate.

OT needs to be about more than solely sensory differences. It should also cover social skills, independence skills, daily living skills etc. It sounds like you are going to need an independent SALT report.

If you are going to appeal a better EP assessment will help. Whether you go back to the original independent one or cut your losses and start a fresh is a difficult decision. Both have pros and cons. The original one has seen DD previously, but the report is poor and suggests they may not have experience of SENDIST. A new one may be more expensive as you are starting again, they may be limited in what they can do due to not being able to repeat previous assessments but you could get one with SENDIST experience. My decision would depend on who it is and their experience.

If money is limited focus on independent reports as it is reports that win appeals. You can instruct SOSSEN or another education solicitor but, as you say, if the reports are vague or missing you aren’t going to succeed. SENDIST give a certain amount of leeway to self representing parents and a mediocre solicitor can hinder your appeal. If money doesn’t stretch to several independent assessments, personally, I would start with a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist, then OT, then SALT, then another EP/go back to the EP. If you are struggling to afford reports contact parents in need.

If you haven’t already sent the email to the LA add specified to detailed and quantified.

Think how you want EOTAS to been funded. Do you want the LA to organise it, a third party or do you want direct payments to source your own, or a mixture? All have advantages and disadvantages.

The weekly therapy sessions must be based on a type of therapy, even if that isn’t obvious, so this can be specified in section F.

Thank you Imitatingdory for taking the time to reply in detail, I really do appreciate it. I haven't sent me email to the LA yet although I have written it so I will tweak it later.

Please forgive my asking but what additional insight might a clinical psychologist be able to provide - presume more than DD's psychiatrist and Ed Psych? (I'm not as clued up as I should be).

Thanks also for Parents in Need - I doubt we would qualify as we are financially ok but also gave DD1 at university to support and there's only so much money to go round.

There is a letter with the draft we received asking if we wanted to find out about personal budgets. I would generally prefer the LA organise funding of EOTAS ad I wouldn't know where to start.

The rationale behind seeking an independent psychiatrist or clinical psychologist assessment is, unless you are lucky, it is likely to be far more detailed, specific and quantified than the CAMHS psychiatrist report. For instance, CAMHS may not recommend something they don’t normally provide, whereas an independent psychiatrist doesn’t have those restrictions. Nor restrictions on the length or frequency of sessions. An EP report is unlikely to have enough detail about DD’s MH needs and the MH interventions she needs.

A clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist will have different focuses. In a perfect world parents would have both, complementing each other, however that is costly. Many parents just go for a clinical psychologist with SENDIST experience. When looking at one or the other it depends on DC’s needs, what your aim of the report is and what other reports you have are like. Clinical psychologists tend to look at the bigger picture and therapies whereas psychiatrists typically have a more medical focus.

Hi @MuddlingThroughWithoutAClue our DD is very similar in profile and we went through this when she was 12. ( she’s 19 now and in year 13)

The others have given you fab advice which needs no comment, there are a couple of things I would say to you as someone with a similar experience

1. What do you actually want to achieve in priority order

1. At 17 please check when your DD is likely to be transferred out of CAMHS to an adult clinic

Dd was prepped for transitioning at 17.5 by CAMHS it caused major problems as it was just as Covid hit and we had to organise private support and different medication as they withdrew sleep meds

Camhs may not proceed with assessments etc if you’re in this deadman’s zone, not all camhs transfer by 18 but you need to understand what your camhs do

Educationally what do you want? If it’s tutoring that’s great but nows the time to look at everything

DD was placed at an Internet school and this was great for her, it doesn’t work for everyone but make sure you make the choice not have a choice imposed by your LA

Be aware that sadly even with all the reports the LA will almost certainly pay lip service and provide little or no therapy, sometimes it pays to find a private therapist yourself who fits your DD’s actual needs, we went through 5 before finding a really good fit

Thank you for your insight @Tomnooktoldmeto - glad to hear things are going better for your daughter.

From the EHCP my main concern is to ensure that DD continues to be able to access education that suits her at a pace she can manage so that if it takes a few extra years she is protected and supported.

I have thought about online schools (Interhigh?) however I don't think it would suit her currently as she lacks motivation to be proactive with study. I don't think the lessons are live 1:1 but I could be wrong?

I have discussed transition to adult services with DD's care coordinator and she says they will start preparing her for it around July/August next year. The ASD assessment is something that's crossed my mind as I can't see her having got to the top of the list anytime soon but it would probably be good for me to ask for an idea of timescales and what will happen.

I would be interested to hear the LA's thoughts about a suitable placement for DD. I sent my email to them yesterday asking for re-writes of various sections of the EHCP and also requesting EOTAS (tutoring).

Would you be able to share a little more information about the online school your DD attended/attends (style of teaching etc/how many in the class etc?)

Thanks

Nothing to add, but we are due a decision on our EHCNA by mid Jan for our 17yo, so following along in case we are in the same position in couple of months.
(Ours also missed all of y11, and came out with 4 GCSEs at grade 3. Instead of re-sitting she has proceeded to college to do the same vocational course she was aiming at, except at a lower level.)

If MH therapies are in section F it doesn’t so much matter DD is nearing transition from the POV of what will be provided, because if adult services won’t provide the therapy the LA must commission independent provision or you can ask for direct payments if you would prefer.

Internet schooling doesn’t work for DS either, he has home tutors.

Be aware that sadly even with all the reports the LA will almost certainly pay lip service and provide little or no therapy,

If the provision is in section F, if the LA refuse to provide it you can force them to via beginning Judicial Review proceedings. To get the therapy provision in section F in the first place you may need to appeal though.

@MuddlingThroughWithoutAClue you guessed correctly that she is at Interhigh and Is placed out of year due to health and birthdate, we did this to allow her to start again so she partially repeated year 7

Lessons are live at Interhigh, they have lead lessons which are like a large lecture and then follow lessons in small tutor lead groups, all lessons are then accessible in the lesson library so if DD is overcooked/ sensory she goes straight to a library lesson when she’s feeling less overwhelmed

The one thing we have found is that they’ve been exceptionally supportive of her unique needs over the years, it’s truly been the only school she’s ever felt like she belonged in

Internet school isn’t for everyone but I hope you get what’s right for your DD, believe it or not we refused to sign DD’s EHCP off for 4 and a half years as our LA we’re not getting it right, fortunately they were still paying her bills

We’ve gone from a child with no future to a young adult ready for University but only because we made sure she had the education that was right for her

You sound like you’re getting what you want put in, consider looking at sensory reintegration and also EMDR for her

Tomnooktoldmeto can I ask why you didn’t just push the LA to finalise (which they could and legally should have done anyway) and then appeal?

@Tomnooktoldmeto I've looked at Interhigh website previously and have thought that it looks like a really good option - reassuring to hear that your personal experience has been so positive. Realistically at the moment I don't think DD would engage - she didn't engage with lockdown learning virtually although that may have been in part because it was still her school and she has very negative anxiety-inducing associations with it. Fantastic that your DD is now ready for university, do Interhigh also offer A levels?

@TeenMinusTests I've read some of your posts over the past months and also saw that you had applied for an EHCNA recently. Your DD did very well to try and transition to college after such a difficult year and I remember that you worked with the college prior. I seem to recall that your LA agreed to the needs assessment very quickly which sounded positive. Are they requesting advice assessments from everyone you want them too? My LA refused despite me quoting the SEN regs to them and as @Imitatingdory has stated previously this was illegal. Our case coordinator was very clever with wording in all correspondence with me also. Nothing I could do at the time but accept appealing would be an option.

Or unlawful I should have said

@MuddlingThroughWithoutAClue yes they do A levels, we currently have 2 in year 13 with additional needs one at Interhigh and the other at our local school, both applying for Uni

I will be grey by the end of it all😱

Yes, I was pleased they accepted the NA quickly. I think it was helped by the good advice here on MN that I wrote a clear letter that was hard for them to say no to.
We have had input from college, ed psych, consultant psychiatrist, and CBT therapist. The last 2 are private and adoption support funded and I'm sending those reports in today. Then I am going to update my 'what's not working well' section on the hub based on things arising over the past month.

I hope you get through to them. it seems so wrong they make the process so hard.

Teen did you request OT and SALT?

Imitating No, I didn't ask for OT nor SALT.

What week are you on now? I would request both in writing ASAP. DD has needs in both and without assessments there won’t be OT or SALT provision in the EHCP as provision is taken from the reports.

Imitating I don't think it's needed? It's not the core issue, or even the secondary one.

Forgive me if you think I am overstepping, but from your posts I think DD would benefit from an assessment and provision, and I think others on here would agree. OT is about much more than many people realise which is why MH teams include OTs. They can work on improving MH, social skills and interaction, everyday living and independence skills as well as the typical perception of OT work. SALT is also about much more than the physical ability to speak, and again I think DD would benefit from it.

Imitiating You may well be right. However DD is doing all she can manage right now, she's struggling with CBT (which isn't CBT yet as they need to do something else first) & college as it is. She just doesn't have bandwidth for any more of anything really.

Teens - the legal test for the LA agreeing to do an EHCNA is relatively low so I was dismayed when ours refused. We'd sent a comprehensive request letter and private therapist report along with CAMHS psychiatric reports and DD was already having medical needs tuition due to being unable to attend school because her mental health difficulties.

The evidence from DD's main school wasn't taken into consideration (no idea what happened to it - a SAR later revealed it to be missing from the council's side), evidence from the EOTAS was (willfully?) misinterpreted and the refusal letter suggested that DD contact the FE college she was interested in doing a course at to see what adjustments could be made to facilitate her attending despite the fact that her psychiatrist has described her as "largely housebound"!

Once our appeal had been submitted the LA agreed to assess within a matter of days. I expected that the assessment would be thorough and comprehensive and foolishly believed that the LA would fulfil their obligation to seek advice from OT, SaLT and Clinical Psychologist as we requested but instead they were obstructive and simply refused!

We are considering the next steps. I have emailed our case coordinator to challenge the draft but I suspect as Imitatingdory says that we'll have to get private assessments and go to appeal if we want to get a good EHCP. I'm torn between just being relieved if the EHCP covers DD's education and worrying about everything else ourselves or trying to get it right in the first place. I presume we could accept it and plan to submit new evidence and get it improved at annual review?

I hope your experience is better than mine has been so far - it's draining trying to keep on top of it and on top of the LA!

@Tomnooktoldmeto it will all be worth it! I have DD1 at university - she has some additional needs and she's enjoying her first term so far. As I'm sure you are aware your DD's will be able to apply for Disabled Students Allowance which can provide funding for additional support while at university. It was so much easier to access than support at school is and worth applying for. In DD1's case (she has DCD/Dyspraxia) she qualified for a laptop, printer and assistive software, training on the software and 1:1 study support sessions is she needs them.

Muddling It is much easier to get the EHCP right from the beginning than trying to tighten it up at AR. Also, you may need to appeal anyway to get EOTAS and make section F specific and quantified, so may as well sort it all in one appeal.

DD2, currently on a placement year between her 3rd and 4th year, has ASD and has DSA covering everything you mention as well as refunding the difference for an en-suite and travel expenses. You are right, a completely different experience.

Teen do you think the college is the right setting? Would a smaller specialist placement with therapies built subtly into the day be better? DS1 isn’t ready for CBT either, it’s a long slow process isn’t it?

Imitating I really think the college is 100% the best place for her (unless there are specialist placements with animals). The animal care course she is doing provides the motivation for pushing against her anxieties. Her therapist is 'adoption aware' and DD is opening up to her.

Ideally at the moment I'd throw away maths. She isn't well enough for it right now and it adds unnecessary stress. I must write that down somewhere. If she could get a bit more support in college she'd be less stressed and so less tired.