Questions about SENCO and EP Appointment for EHCNA

[katalex]

We've got an appointment to talk to the SENCO and Educational Psychologist on Friday as part of DC's EHCNA. I will speak to the SENCO and EP and then the EP will talk to DC. I need to be prepared with any information they require and DC suffers with anxiety and needs to know what to expect. Can anyone tell me what happens at this appointment? What will they want to know? What will they talk to DC about?

What they will talk about will depend on the child's need and will depend on the child's age.

From you, they will want to know why you think your child needs an EHCP. How does (s)he present at home, that is different from a 'typical' child. It is helpful if you can think about 'measurable' things, so if they don't sleep well, think about what time they go to bed / what time they go to sleep / when they wake up / how log they are awake for / when they wake up for the day
or
If they are restricted in their diet, what do they actually eat, or what don't they eat
If it is language concerns, what do /can they say. How functional is their language. What is their understanding like, etc etc

How old is your DC? My son was seen by an EP once when he was at nursery and once in YR5. Both times he really enjoyed spending time with them - and my son has ASD and an anxiety disorder.

They may want to observe your DC in class and speak to the class teacher to get an idea of how their difficulties present a barrier to learning and what they’re like in class.

In my son’s case, he then went out with the EP and did some cognitive ‘tests’. Things like trying to remember sequences of numbers. I think there were some shapes and he had to spot the odd one out or which one came next. He’s not the best at telling me what goes on at school though so I could be wrong!
It was mainly talking though about what he found difficult at school, what he enjoys, any worries he had etc.

I have to say, the report I got was really impressive. In the couple of hours the EP spent with my son she completely ‘got him’ and put together some really good recommendations that went towards supporting him via his Plan.
I would also say, do try and make notes before your meeting. It’s easy to forget things you wanted to say/cover.
I was with the EP for about two hours. She asked me all kinds of things like when my DS started to talk, what he was like at nursery etc so it’s worth trying to remember some key dates/experiences before the meeting.

When I was sent the report, I had the opportunity to speak to her again just to make sure I was happy with what she’d written and to question her about anything.

Thanks for the replies. My DC is 16 and has been out of school with severe (school-related) anxiety for over a year so they will not be able to observe them in class. Even if they did, they would just see a quiet, compliant student getting on with their work. DC masks their difficulties very well at school and then will meltdown at home. They had a long absence during term 2 of year 10, followed by a reduced timetable to try to get them back into school. They got back to full time about 3 days before schools shut for lockdown in March 2020. They still couldn't cope with being there and spent most of their time in student support. They were still sobbing every morning and were late most days. DC has ADHD (the inattention kind), although we didn't know that until a few months ago, and was unable to focus on any online work during lockdown. The school only provided open ended revision tasks and DC could not manage to do it. School removed all support for DC in time for September of year 11. They used covid restrictions as their reason, despite knowing how much they relied on their student support access and timeout card. DC managed to go in for the first 3 days of year 11 but couldn't cope under the new conditions and has been home ever since. I tried telling the school this but they wouldn't listen. We've scheduled an appointment for an ASD assessment next month. School doesn't believe that DC is neurodiverse and did not want to get the SENCO involved when I requested it.

To cut a very long story short, just getting DC ready for school is very difficult. Getting them into the building is impossible. There is no way DC will ever go back into a school so we are hoping that the local college will provide the support they need. We just need some sort of plan to help them get back into education in the least stressful way as possible. They need flexibility and lots of support. I just don't know what's available. Will the EP make suggestions or will they expect me to tell them what we need?

FYI, the appointments are just phone calls.

Your poor DC! Their situation sounds really difficult for you and them. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

It sounds like you are doing a brilliant job in trying to support them. It’s good that the LEA has agreed to bring in an EP. Things have obviously got to beyond crisis point.

Have you started looking around at local colleges? I know it’s hard in these COVID times but you should be able to speak to Sencos to sound them out. If you have an EHCP, then all sorts of things are possible (although I would say potentially not without a fight!). You may be able to secure a placement out of borough, or tuition at home - or a combination of both. There are people much more knowledgeable and experienced here on this board though who are better placed to advise.

Have you spoken to Ipsea? I’ve found them very helpful in the past.

In terms of what the EP can offer - some EPs may be loathe to make specific suggestions/recommendations in terms of placements. You may have to really push for that. They may make some vague recommendations about ‘should have access to small group work’. Or ‘would benefit from a small class’. A good EP will always advocate for the child though. We were advised that it may be beneficial to our case to pay for a private EP (which can cost around £1600!) if we weren’t happy with the LA’s EP but luckily in our case, they were really good.

It is such a fight to get our DC the support they need - it shouldn’t have to be this hard.

My Ds had a EP assessment for an EHCNA at 16.

It was the end of last year and school would not allow the EP in and they wanted to do an teams online meeting with him, which he wouldn't do. I asked the EP for a reasonable adjustment and she visited Ds at home instead.

He has no real academic issues so the EP didn't do any cognitive tests. She spent about 45mins alone with Ds. She asked him about what he struggles with, what he is good at etc.
We had an online parents meeting with her, a meeting at home after Ds had seen her and a phonecall. So she spoke to us for about 3 hours altogether.

The EP would have been happy to recommend a specialist placement ( Ds is autistic) but at the time he had only just started a mainstream sixth form, so that was the placement recommended. In hindsight he does need a specialist ASD placement because he is not going to meet any of the outcomes on his ECHP, but that's probably going to happen post 18 now, although there has been a suggestion of a dual placement.

Have you got any ideas where may be appropriate for your DC, college wise? As far as I can tell there definitely is an expectation for parents to have looked at what could be available. Dh and I feel out of our depth most of the time!

Thanks for the advice. I haven't spoken to IPSEA. I'll give them a call.

DC has found a course at the local college that they want to do but we don't think they will meet the entry requirements. Even the level 2 course requires a grade (any grade) in the core subjects and there is no mention of a level 1 course in that subject. They have been unable to do any GCSE assessments so the school agreed to see if they could find any old work/assessments that they might be able to use to assign a grade (I'm not confident and they won't tell me even if they've found any books to look at). We're fairly confident that they should get something for the subject they want to do at college because they were well ahead of the class back in March last year and probably completed around 75% of the coursework. I'm assuming the EHCP will not help get DC onto a course if they don't meet the entry requirements. It's so frustrating because, in year 10, they were predicted grades 5, 6 and 7 for GCSEs and they could easily have achieved that or better if they'd not had these problems or if they'd been treated sooner.

Colleges in our area don't do GCSEs, other than maths and English if they don't pass first time. The only other option we have is a local organisation which specialises in education for students in my DC's position. They do 5 GCSEs and some life skills courses, plus mental health support. They have small classes. It sounds ideal but DC is not keen. They really want to keep up with their peers and not feel like they're behind when all their friends are getting on with their lives.

I totally agree with your last statement about fighting to get support Toomanyminifigs. I had to escalate to the head teacher after the person I had been dealing with accidentally forwarded an email to me where he had been saying some not very nice things about me and DC to another staff member. It was upsetting at the time but it helped us get more support in the end. Unfortunately by that time it was too late.

Sometimes colleges will admit students with EHCPs to courses even if they don't have the official entry requirements. Are there any SS within travelling distance? What about boarding? Would DC cope with GCSEs in an independent mainstream? Have you considered an EOTAS package? Are there any sixth form colleges further away, but still within travelling distance (up to 1hr15 is conserved reasonable) who offer GCSEs or a level 1 course?

The EP should carry out cognitive tests regardless of academic ability. Punx the more I hear about DS's needs assessment the worse it gets. DS may be academically able but what if he is underperforming compared to his potential? What if he has a spiky profile or hidden needs? DS1&3 are academically able but EP assessments highlighted unknown needs.

If the report is vague with wording such as what Toomanyminifigs posted you need to ask the LA to go back to the report writer to make it detailed, specific and quantified. Otherwise provision in the EHCP will be vague and it won't be worth the paper it is written on.

Your DC should have been receiving medical needs tuition is they were unable to attend school.

As part of the EHCNA is DC also being assessed by SALT, OT and a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist?

Getting support feels like an uphill struggle most of the time kata. Is your DC likely to get an autism diagnosis? That sometimes opens up other educational options. We have some colleges locally that are specifically for young people that have more high functioning ASD.

10green I know, it's not good. The more I learn about what should have been done the more I realise it's not great. I did wonder why no cognitive testing was done at all. EP said it wasn't necessary as Ds has a good memory. Ds has shared recently how difficult he is finding it to concentrate. How he is struggling to cope with his busy brain. I don't think his assessment was good enough.

Punx DS3 has what I, and everyone else, assumed to be a good memory. He does have an excellent long term memory, but it was masking a poor working memory which explains some of his difficulties.

Punx DS's eating disorder will be contributing to his poor concentration.

That's interesting about your Ds 10green as Ds says he has a poor memory but we have been told academic results do not show that. And his eating problems are probably contributing to his concentration difficulties......utterly frustrating for us and Ds, that help is so lacking with that.

Good luck with the EP assessment Kata. Fingers crossed you get to the stage of getting an EHCP issued. Like previously said, do make sure the reports are detailed, specific and quantified, otherwise it can mean support is not as good as it should be and that's definitely not a great situation to be in.

10brokengreenbottles:

We have a school for kids with autism just round the corner from our house but post 16 study is all done at local mainstream schools and colleges. There is no way DC would agree to go to any school so I really think the college is the best option for them.

I contacted the school about medical needs tuition and they told me that DC needs to do the tasks uploaded by their teachers on Google Classroom i.e. self study. They knew that DC wasn't able to do that during lockdown but they didn't give me any other options.

So far there has been no mention of SALT, OT, psychiatrist or clinical psychologist assessments. Should these be expected for all children? There's not much time left to do them. The decision is due in less than 3 weeks. I did send them a copy of DC's private psychiatrist assessment report and similar from CAMHS.

Punx - I think it is likely that they will get an autism diagnosis. We had a pre-diagnostic assessment with a clinical psychologist from the National Autistic Society and she said that there was compelling evidence and recommended going ahead with the full assessment.

Thanks for the good luck. I really hope we get the EHCP too. I would hope that it is a no brainer that a child with DC's issues, having had so much time out of school with little prospect of leaving school with any GCSEs would need one!

Appeal if the LA refuse to issue, the majority of appeals are upheld.

During a needs assessment the LA must seek advice from:
"a) the child's parents or the young person;
b) educational advice (usually from the head teacher or principal);
c) medical advice and information from a health care professional;
d) psychological advice and information from an educational psychologist;
e) advice and information in relation to social care;
f) advice and information from any other person the local authority thinks appropriate;
g) where the child or young person is in or beyond year 9, advice and information in relation to provision to assist the child or young person in preparation for adulthood and independent living; and
h) advice and information from any person the child's parent or young person reasonably requests that the local authority seek advice from."
SEN regs 6(1)

Note H - you can request SALT, OF and psychiatrist or CP assessments. All would be reasonable for a pupil with SEMH difficulties, ADHD and suspected ASD. I suggest you do so in writing. Without SALT, OT and psychiatrist/CP assessments there won't be any SALT, OT or MH provision in the EHCP as provision is taken from the reports. Have you had assessments by your local planning for adulthood service and social care?

The LA must consider independent reports, but in reality they often 'consider' and ignore them, preferring their own reports. What week are you on? If there's only 3 weeks left it sounds as though all assessments should have been conducted by now.

There are specialist colleges. The choice increases if diagnosed with ASD.

It is the LA who are responsible for medical needs tuition. DC should have been provided with a suitable and appropriate education. If DC was not able to access online provision then it was neither suitable nor appropriate and the LA should have provided another form of education, and you could have forced them to via Judicial Review.