Mainstream school refusing child with EHCP

[Mumofsend]

Hello has anyone been in this position? He is 4 due to start in September and it has blindsided me

I think they can if they don't think they can meet his needs.

Theyve already said they can practically meet need. They are worried about being stuck with him if he is still behind come year 1

Are the LA refusing to name the school or have the school just raised concerns when being consulted?

LAs can still name a school even if the school objects.

LAs can only refuse to name your preference in the following limited circumstances -

• The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or SEN of the child or young person; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education of others; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

Parents have a right to a MS education, but not a specific MS school. If a parent wants MS, unless the LA can prove such a placement is incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others and there's no reasonable adjustments that can overcome this the child is entitled to MS schooling.

@10brokengreenbottles the LA are intending to name them but school have informed the LA they can't meet need.

I think they can meet need provided he has substantial 1-1 support in his first couple of years. They have said the setting is unsuitable for him as he has delays in all areas. He is just 4 and 22-36 mostly across the board which isn't a huge delay in most areas. His most significant difficulties are with his speech and language. They think he is uncompatible with the other children as once he gets to year 1 if he is still struggling with group learning and a bit prone to being a wanderer in the classroom he will disturb the other children but that is 18 months away.

I don't think the grounds are overly strong and very based on if x happens and the idea that he won't make any progress over the next 18 months before year 1.

I'm really interested in this topic. I'm afraid i dont have anything particularly useful to contribute. But my twins are delayed and i have been 'warned' mainstream may not be suitable, but advised its up to the individual school. How did you get the EHCP?

OP the bar for incompatibility is relatively high, certainly much higher than the current reasons.

Twin see my post above and this IPSEA page. It is not down to individual schools unless the school is wholly independent. You can apply for an EHCP yourself.

@10brokengreenbottles his peadiatric nurse is absolutely baffled at the idea he won't manage in mainstream and their reasoning.

Now to decide if I want it pushed or not!

I am an EHCP coordinator for a local authority. They can't base their decision on how they think he will be in the future, it has to be based on can they meet his needs now. They can call an annual review at any time, and must review at least annually when the plan and funding are reviewed so if the needs change that is the time to do it. So, they cant refuse to have him. However, if this is their attitude at the beginning do you want him to go there? Do they have experience of children with additional needs, what is their track record with SEN children. Do you like the SENCO?

This is some of their reasoning

*"EHCP Outcomes:

1. By the end of Key Stage 1, for DS to attend to adult directed tasks for 15 minutes so that he shows improved foundation skills in maths and literacy, demonstrated by being able to achieve within age related expectations.

School’s Concerns:
By the end of Key Stage 1, children are expected to be able to follow adult directed tasks for longer than 15 minutes. If they are unable to do this then they are unlikely to be able to achieve within age related
expectations. Whilst the provision outlined is potentially achievable in the EFYS Stage, it is not part of our provision in
Key Stage 1. Therefore, even if DS manages in EYFS, his needs and provision would not be met alongside his peers in Year 1 and he would be isolated. This would not be inclusion and would not support this ongoing needs."*

Isn't that literally the opposite of inclusion?

Another one

*"EHCP Points:
He struggles to follow the routines of the setting and with transitions. At these times he can become Very vocal and cross.

School’s Concerns:
In order to manage 90 children in the base safely, children must follow routines and transitions in school. We are concerned that DS struggles to do this not only in the pre-school setting but also at home and therefore is likely to also become cross in school. This would impact negatively on his peers who will be trying to learn the transitions at the same time"*

He needs visual support and does get cross but he isn't aggressive. He is more of a pouter and arms folded cross. Visual and physical guidance helps a lot.

*EHCP Points:
DS has significant speech and language development delays. His overall speech clarity is very poor which impacts on his ability to successfully communicate with others and in a busy classroom environment. This could cause him frustration. It is easier to understand DS when it is in context. It can be very hard to follow, for instance, when he tells tries to tell mum about something that has happened at pre-school.

School’s Concerns:
Our cohorts have 90 children. In EYFS a large proportion of the day is free-flow and therefore is considered as a busy environment. We are concerned that DS would find this frustrating as others would not understand him. He would then not receive the positive social interactions that he needs and as outlined In his reports, he could become cross with his peers. We feel that DS needs to be in a schooling environment where a total communication approach is used by all staff for all children so that he can be understood by all as often as possible.*

School boast about their speech and language strengths and on site therapist. For a mainstream that is actually excellent provision so surely they are better suited to meet those needs?

I'm frustrated

Their overall point

With DS’s needs requiring a high adult to child ratio in order to keep him and others safe, we estimate a greater number of staff will be needed to support him, and we argue that within a mainstream setting this Is financially unsustainable or an inefficient use of resources to the detriment of other pupils.

That is why they are being funded by the LA a 1-1?

It is 3 pages along these lines

DS has a right to MS, granted there's no right to that particular school. It is clear in law than unsuitability of MS is not a reason to refuse admission. The fact they believe DS is too complex and his needs would be better met in SS and funding concerns are irrelevant unless they can also prove incompatiblity with the provision of efficient education for others and no reasonable adjustments can be made. They clearly don't meet the high bar.

If you want DS to attend this school and the LA are going to name them anyway then ignore them. However, I think it says a lot about the school's attitude.

If the LA aren't going to name them anyway and you want that school you are likely to win at tribunal. Or you could use it as ammunition for a placement you do want, including an indie SS if there's any who like locally.

@10brokengreenbottles I believe the LA are intending to name regardless but it is absolutely ringing major alarm bells.

I'm curious to know how on earth a mainstream can say they don't have provision for children not meeting ARE in KS1

I think they can meet need provided he has substantial 1-1 support in his first couple of years. They have said the setting is unsuitable for him as he has delays in all areas. He is just 4 and 22-36 mostly across the board which isn't a huge delay in most areas. His most significant difficulties are with his speech and language.

I tend to open these threads with some empathy for the school, from just reading the title, at times, but I can't understand what on earth they are talking about here.
If he is achieving in the 22 - 36 month band, at not much over 48 months, I'm frankly surprised he even has an EHCP, and certainly that the school thinks he will need a full time 1:1. I genuinely can't understand how they have the gall to say they can't meet his needs.

@BackforGood the LA and his preschool are baffled too. The only reason they issued was because of his speech and listening/attention difficulties which are more towards the 22 month end.

I think the school have an issue with the fact his sister is autistic, with a plan and can be quite challenging. DS isn't at all.

"He could become cross with his peers" or "We estimate he will disrupt his peers" is the overriding theme of the whole thing. His transition difficulties will adversely impact his peers. Preschool put in place now&next, problem solved.

I just feel like they see him as a potential challenging child they can avoid when there is zero indication he will be. The only negative behaviour in his plan is that he will bite me as his mum or he can become cross when frustrated. His cross = arms folded bottom lip out. No incidents in nursery.

They have said there is zero indication of progress being made in preschool. They wouldn't know as they haven't spoken to preschool...

I really wouldn't want to send my child to this school. They clearly don't want him and this does not bode well for the future.

Have you looked at any other schools?

@Ellie56 the school have told me no mainstream will accept him so not massively. My oldest is autistic at the same school with her own ehcp so I need to try and ensure logistics are manageable too.

Its all a bit of a mess that has blindsided me

This is my first message, so I'm not sure if it links directly under @Cliff1975 's message, however having worked in SEN I would totally agree. You really want your child to be in a school that wants them to be there, even if technically they can't refuse.

I doubt that this school actually knows what the approach of other mainstream schools would be. I'm really sceptical that they all have the same fairly ridiculous attitude. Try phoning them and speaking to the SENCOs.

Hi I am following as my child sounds very similar. Hope you get some answers soon x

Oh my Gosh! I know this is an Year old thread but you might be speaking of the same school I am currently trying to get my ASC son into for secondary mainstream but our local school (which is an all through school who pride themselves on being “very inclusive”) are trying to dissuade me from applying Though LA have agreed to fund him one to one, ABA programme via his EHCP & via personal budget which is already in place for primary & he is thriving in mainstream primary (though we realise he needs support he is doing well with support) ! They haven’t even seen the EHCP or been formally consulted yet but been going on about how they are “bursting” with “too many SEN KIDS”, their grievances with LA etc & trying to pick a fight with me to stop me from applying!
what did you do OP ? How’s your DS doing now?