dyspraxia and spelling

[trunkybun]

Hi
I am just wondering if anyone here has any advice/insight regarding how to teach a child with dyspraxia how to spell. My son who is 6 and in year 2 has the usual problems with writing (amongst other things) but also struggles with spelling. Every weeek he comes home with 5 spellings to learn and unless they are very short (3-4 letters)just doesn't 'get'it. He will start the word correctly and then just seems to forget what the word was and just calls out totally random letters! trying to get him to break the words down phonetically doesn't work as he doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between many letter sounds.
He is however an excellent reader but I think that is down to him being good at recognising whole words and not using phonetics. I find this whole spelling thing (when combined with everything else) very wearing and am struggling to find a strategy that works for him. sorry if this post doesn't make much sense! (need a tired smiley)

Hi there,

My ds has dyspraxia too but doesn't seem to have a particular problem with spelling. However, I notice that you say he calls out the letters rather than write them down.

I get ds to say the words and then call out the letters whilst reading them (he will sometimes get them wrong even when reading them out and he is a good reader too). That way he is seeing the words and hearing them at the same time which means it is going in both ways. When he practices them he writes them down which may be the difference between the two of us.

I think we were told by the school that they should practice them by writing them as they have to write them in the test and also when writing generally in class.

I appreciate that writing is tortuous for dyspraxic children but I kind of see it as writing practice too. What a mean mummy - you should hear the complaints!

Last thing to add is that even though my ds is good reader he can't seem to sound out words either which is really weird. It is like he has learnt everything by memorising it by sight but I am sure he can't have done. He seems to be able to do single letter sounds but have trouble with 2 or more letter sounds combined.

Not sure that was much help but you do have my sympathy and also my thanks as I had forgotten to make a note of this weeks spellings from the homework book and it has to be handed in tomorrow so I had better go and do that now.

Sometimes children with dyspraxia have difficulty in visualising the word. This causes difficulties as if you can't "see" the word in your head, it makes it difficult to spell it out. A behavioural optometrist might be able to help in developing these skills. Check out babo.co.uk

Has your DS been assessed for dyslexia? There is a significant correlation between dyspraxia and dyslexia - 20-50% depending on which study you might look at, I believe.

Is your DS orally dyspraxic at all? As this also affects the way they articulate the vowel sounds which can distort the phoenetics and lead to incorrect undestanding of the phoentic spellings.

I think the key thing to do is to involve the SENCO at the school and discuss the plan that the school have for him. I would also get him assessed for dyslexia as soon as you are able to

sounds dyslexic to me

actually my ds1 was diagnosed with dyspraxia at 7 and I have to say, I questioned it from the start and later got a completely different diagnosis. Ds2 is definitely dyspraxic and there's a world of difference between the two of them.

Thanks for all your replies, some food for thought there. I will definately get him to write the letters as he spells the word and see if that helps.The only problem is that his writing skills are sooo appalling that it's likely to be an even slower process. He cannot remember what most letters look like and needs you to write them so that he can try to copy them! He has not been tested for Dyslexia, but has seen quite a few health care professionals (SALT, Pead, Occ Therapist, Physio) and none have mentioned it. He is on School Action at the mo and I have to say the schhol have been pretty good and they were the ones who instigated his referrals etc. (he also has hypermobility)

CPN
What would you say are the defining characteristics of Dyslexia vs Dyspraxia. My DS as well as the difficulties with writing also has very poor short term memory (has to be told everything a million times) poor running, jumping, catching skills. Is continually walking around with his mouth covered in food and his trousers falling down (just doesn't feel them)has 'toddleresque' tantrums borne out of frustration. In comparison is a very good reader (as mentioned) and can remember song lyrics, speeches for plays etc, uncannily quickly and accurately.
Talks a lot too

Hi Trunkybun, my DS is 6y and in yr2 and is also struggling with his reading and writing. He has speech dyspraxia and a terrible short term memory.. His reading is way way behind. He cant cope with his spellings. School have put him on school action plus. another meeting soon to discuss progress.

Trunkbun, your ds sounds exactly like my ds2!
Early on, his montessori teacher said he was having difficulty with writing/drawing. One thing that was glaringly obvious was his lack of abililty to manage a bike, even with stabilisers. He just couldn't figure out how to make his legs go around in a circular motion. Later I have realised that this is to do with confusion between the right and left sides of his body, they don't interact with each other correctly. His writing is poor, his reading is OK, his mental maths is very good.
You do have to be careful though, as children with dyslexia, dyspraxia, ADD and ASD can have features of all the above conditions, so having dyspraxia does not mean that he can't also have dyslexia. We are now beginning to think that perhaps ds2 has some dyslexia and that it has been "masked" by his dyspraxia which is glaringly obvious.
Personally I have found that we got far more useful advice and info from OT's than we have from EdPsychs. Not sure why but they appear to have better intuition as to what will help.

ChipMonkey and Trunkybun - both your boys sound exactly like mine. Messy eating, can't ride a bike (his little brother is better than he is) has trouble with dressing/buttons and anything that requires the coordination of two hands or two feet.

I was interested to hear that you haven't had anything useful from the ed psych. Chipmonkey. We had parents evening this evening and saw the SENCO. We wondered about seeing an ed psych. as DS is supposed to have mild AS as well but we were told that she probably wouldn't have anything useful to add as DS is doing OK academically apart from his handwriting and other motor skills. I wondered if we were being fobbed off but maybe not!

Something I read recently, possibly on here, suggested improving handwriting by getting dyspraxic children to write on a slope with the paper at an angle so the school is going to try that. DS is not keen though as I don't think he wants to stand out from the crowd. Understandable I suppose.

However, with things like spelling writing is an issue as his teacher often finds his writing is illegible or he has attempted to rush and he has written something that looks wrong, but when he is asked, he knows exactly how the word is spelt. It is a shame really as it is holding him back.

Trunkybun - it just occurred to me but how about using magnetic letters to practice the spelling. That way he doesn't have to write but he doesn't have to say the letters out loud either. He can still focus on the visual as you would in reading. Don't know if anybody else has ever tried it and what the results were though.

Thanks to all!!
Nice to hear that so many others share DS's problems (although that sounds wrong!! obviously I'm not wishing them on anyone) Also there seems to be such a lot of overlap with all this stuff!
Niecie the magnetic letters is an inspired idea, we have them and a magnetic whiteboard but never use them!! Will practice tonight and I'll let you know how it goes.
DS has a writing slope at home and at school and about 50 thousand different pencils and grips etc, trouble is he justs flits between them as the mood takes him and we haven't found a grip that really works yet. His pencil grip is truly awkward due to him having so much range of movement in his finger joints, he kinds of wraps his thumb around his fingers in order to achieve some stability.
At a meeting with the school it has been agreed that he can have some typing lessons so that some of his work can be done on a PC so have just ordered a special needs keyboard for him and will see how that goes! (don't think it will replace playing Mario Brothers games on the PC though!)

The trouble is Niecie, that we have to go through the EdPsych to get addtional help. I'm in Ireland so maybe it's different in the UK. And the dept education here keep moving the goalposts. First we were told we needed a diagnosis of dyspraxia. The OT he was seeing referred us to a private neurologist. He gave us a letter with the diagnosis, which we brought in to the school. Only to be told that that was no longer enough, not only must he have dyspraxia but we have to prove that it is causing him problems, therefore have to go back to the EdPsych!!! I feel like we're going around in circles a lot of the time!

ChipMonkey - why aren't these things every easy. You know what you need but you can't access it for all the red tape.

I don't know how the system works in N Ireland but it sounds to me like the school are being obstructive. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't know what they were doing tbh. What use is the ed psych in this process anyway? As far as I am aware they can't diagnose something like dyspraxia and anyway, the neurologist should be more qualified than an ed. psych to refer so what is the problem?!! Makes you want to spit doesn't it, not least as even if you humour them and see the ed psych., it isn't something you can do next week. You have to go on the waiting list with all the weeks and months of waiting that entails, and all the while your poor ds is struggling.

We definitely need a 'frustrated' emotion, don't we!

They have banging-your-head-against-a-brick-wall emoticons on mumsonline. But they have tickers too!

I'm in the South of Ireland, btw, Niecie. Not sure if it's any better up North except that things usually are better in the UK generally. The thing was, though, that the neurologist appt took all of 10 minutes, cost me 150 Euro, and didn't tell us anything we didn't know.
Ds1, his older brother has ADD but the school EdPsych diagnosed him with dyspraxia. We took him to a private OT who told us that he didn't have dyspraxia and is on the 99th centile for ADD. But, the last meeting I had with the teachers looking after him, the diagnosis of dyspraxia was still on his record, his teacher had thought it was a dodgy diagnosis but seemed to thing the OT was not qualified to say otherwise. But at the end of the day, we ALL know that the problem is that when other children are doing their schoolwork, ds1 is "elsewhere". TBH, the school are doing their best but they are simply not given the resources.

Oh I want one of those!!

(Not the ticker obviously)

My DS1 (6) is very similar to many of the children described on here. Two things have helped him enjoy his spelling homework more (too early to say whether they've had a positive effect yet). The first is a computer program that was mentioned on here a while back. Can't do links but
www.amblesideprimary.com/ambleweb/lookcover/lookcover.html.
The second is using bath crayons (ELC) to write the spellings on the bath tiles - still writing but I think it helps that he can do them as large as he likes! And he enjoys the mess too

A quick update! the magnetic letters seem to be working well, It really helps him to see the letters on the board, as he finds it hard to maintain a visual image in his head of the word he is spelling.
It also helps when he misses one or more letters out as he can see that the word just 'looks wrong'
I am also seeing a pattern emerging of the letter sounds he finds most difficult - he hears 'th' as l, and cannot hear the 'n' sound in a word (as in 'went', 'sent')
So thanks Niecie!!

There as a computer program called 'Wordshark' which is an excellent motivator for learning spelling lists through games. It has been specifically designed for children with specific learning difficulties and children never get tired of using it. Source it via the internet from White Space (Christmas is coming!)

Resurrecting this thread as it seems there may be more going on with DS than (just) Dyspraxia and Hypermobility. He has been working with a Physio and O.T for several months now and they are concerned that although there has been some progress in his gross motor skills, his writing has not really improved at all. I myself cannot see any real difference between his writing now in Yr 2 and Reception and his confidence with writing has understandably suffered in the meantime. They are asking the school to refer him either to an Educational Psychologist or someone else whose name my DP (who took DS for his appointment today)cannot remember!! Maybe he does have Dyslexia as some of the earlier posters on this thread suggested, but if that is the case would he be such a strong reader? I have also read that people with Dyslexia are often very creative/artistic and DS doesn't appear to be either!(maybe those attributes are wiped out by his Dyspraxia though) Have to say this is all getting a bit depressing

Just picked up thread. DS has mild dyslexia (great reader too) shocking written work and moderate/severe dyspraxia. Not artistic either but a huge comedian and very eloquant. Understand depression issue. See Ed Psych - ours fab and sent us a ton of info and aids to help. Seems that it is all about building confidence through coping strategys as of course no cure. We have had to do all above privately - government help pretty much useless and far too slow. Adopt Dunkirk spirit as ruddy tough slog - glass or 3 of plonk does wonders too!

Hi!

The ways I've found to deal with dyslexia and dyspraxia is through handwriting practice ... short term memory of words is linked to practicing them writing and if they have difficulties in this area it is doubly difficult... persevere it does work in the end. They say that as they repeat them visually and in the handwriting it helps the brain transfer them to long term memory.

As for the question about dyslexia - there are a variety of forms ... many parents get hung up on the spelling one .... it's more to do with processing of information and storage than spelling. You tend to find that early on they practice reading alot which is why some dyslexics manage to acquire the reading skills but not the spelling as they do all they can to avoid putting pen to paper (especially if they have dyspraxia or poor motor skills as a combination). These are higher functioning dyslexics - famous examples are Richard Branson, Einstein to name but a few... great readers but couldn't spell .... doesn't mean they are not intelligent or talented at other things.

My understanding about the dyslexia/artistic connection, is that some dyslexics have a very well-formed spatial sense, so great at design and art and things like that. Not a thing you see often in dyspraxics though.

I don't know how to conquer the spellings though. it is tough, and frustrating as my ds2 is a really, really good reader and so I thought he understood the words. Copying is hard for him too.

I agree about using it as handwriting practice, and actually sometimes I let him type up the words as I say them. It means he has to go slowly, look and find each letter and then he can see it printed, and often can then see it looks wrong, which he doesn't do with his own writing. And he rushes when he writes too, because he feels bad about it I think.

Don't know if that will help you?

my ds is dyslexic, has appallingly bad writing and is years behind in spelling. BUT has a normal reading age and is pretty fluent. I also suspect he memorises whole new word rather than decodes it. Teachers try and persuade me he must be dyspraxic because of the writing/spelling thing, but he is very co-ordinated, builds incredibly good lego models etc, can swim, run, ride bike etc.

I'd like a bang-head-against-wall emoticom too ...