Should I deal with this?

[Soffy]

DD aged 13 in year 9 (england ).

Her grades have begun to drop, shes constantly saying that she can't keep up, gets very frustrated and says the teachers don't explain things and she cant understand , says she has panic attacks (that she describes as a hot feeling inside ). Lots of tears at home.

The school tested her and said she was very slow (a lucid test I think it was called) and have given her 25% extra time in exams. We took her for a dyslexia test she that was negative although her process speed was in the 1st centile. She also has autistic traits (diagnosed by CAMHs when she was 11).

I am worried as this seems alot worse since year 9 started but I dont know why. Is there any point talking to the school?shes middle set and average so i dont think shes a big concern but I'm worried about it continuing. The school aren't the best with communication etc. They're quite focused on academics so I've always felt as a middle set child they weren't that interested anyway. I am thinking of trying to find a smaller school for her, but do you think I should get her tested for anything else?

I think the first thing you need to do is make an appointment to talk to the SENCO at the school explaining everything you have said here.

I've done that before and they carried out the lucid test and they have her 25% extra time. I am dithering as I didn't fine them particularly helpful, but realistically I dont know what they can do in reality. It sounds to me as though she needs information to be given in chunks and lots of practice and double checking that she understands. Shes not going to get that in her current school. I am wondering if I should move her to an independent school that's sympathetic to SEN (theres one nearby), but will it really make much difference ? I just dont know

I would book another meeting with the SENCO. If they met with you last time and as a result of the meeting carried out the test and gave the resulting extra time then it wasn't as if the SENCO completely dismissed your concerns.

Your DD may benefit from an Educational Psychologist assessment.

Independent schools aren't always very good for pupils with additional needs so do be careful if you go down that route.

I agree with 10brokengreenbottles. Independent mainstream schools are not always good for SEN pupils.

It sounds like your DD is slow at processing which is common in pupils with autism. Because of this, the normal pace of teaching is too fast for her and will explain why she finds it so difficult to keep up. Secondary teaching is very auditory and she probably needs more visual methods of teaching.

Consider applying for an EHC needs assessment. You can apply yourself. Info here:

www.ipsea.org.uk/ehc-needs-assessments

Bear in mind though many LAs turn parents down as a matter of course and then back down when parents appeal.

I was always a bit confused about her diagnosis Ellie56. I was told she didn't meet the threshold for diagnosis and had 'traits'. Does that mean she has autism?I always thought not. My nephew has an EHCP so I have some vague knowledge about it. The bottom line is I cant imagine her being provided with any visual aids. She is meant to have hand outs so she doesnt have to copy off the board and they rarely even manage that. I'm not having a dig, there are 210 kids in each year group and plenty with more serious problems than my daughter I'm sure.

She has to meet a certain criteria for a diagnosis of autism, but if she has "traits" she presumably meets some of the criteria. It seems as though one of those traits may be slow processing, as she struggles so much in class.

In your position I think I would request a second opinion on the "autistic traits". It could be they missed something in the original assessment.

We were told by one psychologist that our son "definitely wasn't autistic" when he was 5. Nearly 3 years later he was diagnosed with ASD.

I get what you are saying about other pupils with more serious problems than your daughter. There always will be. But the bottom line is your daughter is struggling, you say yourself her grades are dropping, and the problems are beginning to impact on her mental health, so something is definitely not right. If you don't fight for her nobody else will.

Has she ever been assessed by an educational psychologist?

Thank you. Yes , it was the EP who diagnosed the slow processing. I thought it was dyslexia so we saw an EP who specialised in that. The school had said their tests indicated it was that, but he said no and that it was very low processing. I just feel like I'm going down a rabbit Warren. As I said , I cant see how the school would provide visual learning anyway. it's a big comprehensive and I think they just seem to expect them to keep up.

Do some schools offer visual teaching methods? My nephew goes to a special school so I know they do there . I dont think my daughter needs a special school. Just somewhere which allows her more time. There is a private school nearby which is meant to be good with SEN. I just dont know how that translates in class , and whether it means visual learning and allowing students extra time. This is so confusing.

Good teachers will adapt their teaching to include visual aids etc.for students such as your daughter.

I think you really need to talk to the SENCO again to see what can be put in place at the current school to help her before making a major decision like changing schools.

Maybe what she needs is 1:1 adult support in class to help her keep up and to fill in the gaps when she misses things or doesn't understand.

I think it is also worth asking for an EHC Needs assessment. Even if the school are not supportive, you can apply yourself.

This will assess what she needs and what provision needs putting in place to meet these needs.

Did the EP she saw previously make any recommendations? Presumably there was a report?

Hmmm, that maybe the issue then. It's very hit and miss if she'll even get handouts. I'm not sure theres an answer to this.

There has to be an answer for your daughter's sake. Don't let it go OP. It will just get worse.

I know it won't be easy - I've had to fight for my son to get the right education.He was struggling in mainstream FE and it got to the point where his stress levels were so high he nearly had a nervous breakdown. He had to have therapy for months afterwards.

We had to fight for an EHCP and a specialist college placement.It was hugely stressful, immensely frustrating and at times soul destroying.

But once he was in the right place, with the right support everything turned round. He made fantastic progress, his confidence soared and his self esteem improved, and he is now really happy. all the aggro was so so worth it.

Good luck OP

What sort of provision does your daughter's school have? I think you need to meet with the senco again. Our DD is in a state school in y7 and to give you an idea here is what she gets:

All teachers get a pupil profile of any child with SEN in their class. DDs days:

Sits at the front
Has access to green and red cards (these are in her planner) and puts that colour on her table when she doesn't understand so she doesn't have to put her hand up
Bullet point list of instructions on side of the board
Vocabulary booklet (teacher gives her the vocab for next lesson, it's normally about 2-3 new words she has to write the meaning of)

We are v lucky in that we have a huge learning support department so some of her lessons are there instead of having MFL. She is in the lowest maths and English sets that only have around 10-15 kids which helps and maths is very visual and slow paced.
She also has a key worker. This is a nice TA that's young and checks on DD during the day and makes sure she's not forgetting something. We also email her if something is wrong. She is like an extra tutor and sometimes acts as a TA in DDs classes.

For context DD does have a EHCP but it is of minimal value and a lot of these are things the school can put in place without much extra cost eg sitting at the front and the coloured cards.
The rest is really based on how well resourced your schools learning support team are. I would definitely chat to the senco and before you do go armed in with some things you want to be put in place. It is not ok she is missing handouts. It looks as though not many of her teachers know there is a problem and if she is eligible for the extra time than it is enough of a problem to make school horrible without the right support.

There are plenty of schools that are absolutely useless. We had the same fight for the plan and with the primary school. The difference with DD now is crazy. She's a different child. I would look around the independent if its something you can afford, but be careful as they often charge extra for learning support. But I would only do this after you've spoken to the senco again. Also, do look around other schools. We are in London so we have lots of options but the one we went for in the end is about 20mins by bus and it passes 3 other schools DD could've gone to, so not out local but its working well.
If you find a local state school with a good SEN provision than that could work. Bear in mind this may not be the school with the best reputation. A good SEN dept as I'm sure you know, needs to be well funded and for that to happen it needs lots of SEN children. A lot of schools with a large SEN population have a weird reputation. We raised a number of eyebrows sending DD to the school we did esp as there's really academic ones nearby. It would be impossible to get this level of support at a really academic school because they just don't have the SEN pupil numbers.

That's really interesting Dodgeitornot. As far as I know shes on the SEN register, she gets handouts but they are not given consistently and that's it. I know she probably wouldn't like the cards. We are in London as well, is your school anywhere near sw London?

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Her school has a very good reputation for GCSE results. I really dont think SEN is their priority. I am going to have a look at their SEN policy.

No, unfortunately we're in North London so nowhere near you. The areas are similar in that they're littered with v high performing schools and highly aspirational and pushy parents. You've got Tiffin we've got Latymer etc.
There is a very common theme of 'send your child to the best performing school they'll get the best grades'. Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. We ended up trapsing through compare schools and would filter the results by prior attainment. Schools that had no children with low prior attainment achieving anything we didn't even contact. The schools that had too few low prior attainers to have data was the same. SEN provision in a state school can't happen if there aren't enough children to fund it.
I would strongly think about looking at other state schools around you. There will definitely be one with better Sen provision. What your daughter is getting now is not good enough. Our DD has DLD and possible autism and those in a class setting look like dyslexia and ADD. Without the support she's getting it would be impossible for her to access the curriculum.
Also bear in mind that Y9 onwards it is difficult to find good provision. Even our school has warned us that is becomes harder to logistically execute it. The learning support children generally do: maths, English, double science and 2-3 options. The rest of the time they have extra English and maths and 1:1 sessions of whatever extra help they need.

It is hard to find provision like this in both the private and state sector. I would start calling around and seeing if you can meet with first your senco and ask exactly what they can put in place. Than try to meet the sencos in the schools around you and than compare the provision offered.
It may be hard for them to give you in-depth advice on exactly what support your daughter would get, as they don't know her, but you will be able to gage from what they say. The sencos are often v honest and one school told us that they just don't have enough EHCP or Sen children to be able to put everything in place.

It is much easier to organise a SEN dept with a pool of money than with drips and drabs from 2-5 ehcp children and a hundred other SEN ones.
The school that told us this had 10 ehcp children in total in the school. They don't even have enough to meet the demands of the EHCP children, let alone helping our the ordinary SEN register kids. The school we go to has over 80 EHCP children and 25% of the NT children get some sort of intervention.

Also, from our experience, the Sen policy is never really what is actually on offer. In our school if you read the Sen policy it sounds exactly as the others but the offer is a lot more broad and varied.
The SEN policy has to hit every legal requirement so it often reads the same in every school. What you need is a SEN information report. This will outline exactly the channels of escalation the school uses and what is then on offer. Not many schools have this available or even have it at all but it is helpful. The senco will often have better information than what is on there as well.

Thank you Dodgeitornot. I will have a look online at local schools later. Much of the problem was that we weren't aware that she was struggling until probably the year when the anxiety started and CAMHS got involved.

Schools are required to publish their SEN information report. But Dodge is right, reality is often different. A good school will adapt to offer support that pupils need even if they don't normally offer that type of support. Visual aids isn't something out of the ordinary, so the school can do that, they may need prodding into action.

Hi Soffy,

Currently in a similar situation myself as some of these ladies in here now (hello ladies). My DD has an ehcp, so slightly different. I would as they suggest approach the SENCO to discuss your concerns. You are also able to make your own referral for an ehcp assessment.

I'm not from London but the south east, schools are a minefield. Our local LA, sent me through a pack which contains their 'selected' schools with SEN. My DD's current school, does haven't a SEN department as such. On my investigations, their are mainstreams schools that offer attachments which means if she struggles, they have ways to teach her outside of the classroom via hubs etc. I know some schools need an ehcp for this.

We have an independent school close to us who has an amazing SEN and dylexia support attachment. They are taught in no more than 16 in a class and with my DD currently in a class of 30+ it's exactly what she needs but ideally we need the LA to back us on our decision due to the EHCP, school are concerned about meeting her needs.

I have looked into specialist independent schools too, there are quite a few up your direction that may be of interest. Smaller classes, specialist teachets etc.

My DD cried again in class today and it seems to be getting worse not better. Her LSA, just said she needs to learn to do somethings on her own. I get that but wow, she's 12 with anxiety and learning difficulties have a little more compassion. She bottles alot of it up and brings it home!

Have you spoken to your DD about it? How she feels etc?

Her LSA, just said she needs to learn to do somethings on her own.

Yes mainstream staff are good at that aren't they? No real understanding and just expecting SEN students to magically learn independence and fit in with everyone else. This happened to our autistic son in mainstream FE.It almost broke him.