In tears over DS (7) please help me

[susan82]

Hello
Will try to explain as concisely as possible. DS is in Y2 of mainstream primary. Been there since preschool. Academically bright but struggles with anger and social skills. Hyperactive and poor attention span. Challenges authority and wants it all on his terms. Explosive temper and has hurt staff and children (which we feel dreadful about). Behaviour has been problematic all through Reception, Y1 and Y2. Several fixed term exclusions throughout Reception, Y1 and Y2. It seems when staff ask him to do something he doesn't want to do he cB get anxious and overwhelmed and angry. Head keeps threatening permanent exclusion. School have attempted to bring several external agencies in to work with DS but these have had limited effect as each agency /individual has visited him twice maximum and not returned. This has left DS confused. Ed Psych visited him twice, gave staff a few strategies and never returned. TA assigned to DS sporadically to support him in class. We can appreciate the school have tried but we feel he has been abandoned in a way with no long term or effective support. Primary Mental Health lady visited once and never again!
As parents we've tried our utmost to get help and support for him and us. Been to GP, CBT and now are paying for a Child Psychologist privately. Home life loving and stable.No traumatic or negative life event he has experienced, no bereavement or anything that could contribute to this behaviour. We are at a loss where it has come from !!!!
Friday went spectacularly bad for him at school, he has been excluded yet again for lashing out at a teacher. We support the school as much as we can as we fully agree this behaviour is totally unacceptable but we feel we are stuck in a rut of exclusions and him repeating this behaviour. Headteacher spoke about him very negatively Friday and I left the meeting and cried in my car. I've spent so much time in tears I'm exhausted. He is so capable of being a lovely, well behaved boy and we are trying so hard to get to the bottom of his issues, we are desperate!
We feel that he and us have been abandoned and no sustainable help given. We do not want him written off at 7. When I said to the Head "but he has so much potential" she rolled her eyes and said "really??"
Made me feel so so sad. He's my son at the end of the day!
Sorry for the long post I just need to talk to someone or just feel listened to! Thank you

Just to add, he isn't really a problem at home. Mainly school.

I'm so sorry for what you are all going through. I've been there. It's really really tough.

My son was exactly the same although it started around beginning of year 2. Very bright but struggling with emotional sand social skills. Multiple exclusions for violence etc. I didn't see it at the time but it was undiagnosed high functioning autism. He just couldn't cope with the demands and expectations. Anxiety presents as aggression and violence in a bit to control the environment and make things safe. Home is safe so there aren't any problems.

We had many referrals and reports done which culminated in a EHCP although it took so long he was only attending on a reduced timetable. Things got so bad we stopped sending him to school because it was affecting his mental health so badly and meaning the anxiety was worse and so was the subsequent behaviour. He's been at home for 9 months recovering from all the experiences he has that made him feel worthless.

He starts at an autism specialist school in September and they are kind, tolerant, understanding and get things right in the environment so the children thrive. All his transition sessions have gone really really well.

What do you think is behind the behaviour? Some of what you describe sounds like autism too. Do you think that could be a possibility?

Sunshinedaisydo
OMG thank you. What you're describing is exactly what we're experiencing. Yes we definitely think he's on the spectrum. Also the Psychologist we are currently seeing thinks he may have PDA
It's soul destroying isn't it?!!

. Strange as it may seem it was actually in ds1's best interests that he did end up permanently excluded because it meant he did finally get the support he needed. What I would recommend though is applying for an EHCP. Your son meets the criteria for assessment because by excluding him the school are saying they can not support him with their existing resources. This has two benefits (I) It means he should be assessed to see where his difficulties lie and (ii) It should bring in extra support. Whether this be in his current school, another mainstream school or a special school.

We had a lot of people say he may have PDA too because his reactions were so violent and extreme but once we removed him from school we could see it wasn't that. Just terrible anxiety that is part of autism magnified by a million in a mainstream school that was constantly punishing him, keeping him isolated etc.

After 9 months out being educated at home and doing climbing, horse riding, psychology therapy, learning what he wants (he's so bright and only 8, it really doesn't matter at this stage what he does) and just relaxing a lot we can see there are virtually no demand avoidance strategies going on and he's finally really happy again. He really wants to be back at school and loves his new school already. He says it's quieter, calmer, more understanding, and people are like him and who are proud to be autistic.

If I were you (and you may have done this already!) is start the EHCP process asap. He clearly meets the threshold. Also, get onto the ASD ax team and keep nagging to be seen sooner and that his education is at risk. We did this and the ASD advisory teacher also put pressure on. We went from a 2 year wait to just under 1 (we'd already been waiting around 9 months so once expedited, it was quick). Once we had the diagnosis, the EHCP could be amended properly (some people thought he was EBD and needed that type of school) and the door was opened for ASD school.

Also consider if he should be at school. Looking back, I wish I'd removed him sooner. That environment, the isolation and exclusion was destroying his self esteem and mental health. Once he starting talking about killing himself we pulled him out. He's so much healthier and more robust and so ready to go back to the right school.

Also meant to say, the exclusions are often done to boost the case for EHCP (so the head said anyway) - certainly made it easier for us to evidence need.

OP, I have BEEN HERE! You could be describing my DS. It is awful and I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's hideously hard. I felt (and still feel) lonely in the school, sad to see him struggle, frustrated, upset, the lot.

What I would say has helped us (we're getting there slowly) and what I'd suggest you do is:

1. We pulled him out of school that was unsupportive. He was being punished, shouted at, berated. Child psychologist said he had built huge anxiety as a consequence. On top of the anxiety of course he already felt because (as we now know) he is autistic. Very similar to what Sunshinedaisydo is describing.

1. We moved him to a school that supports him. It has worked wonders. We were out of catchment, but applied anyway and got lucky. We chose a school that is good for SEN support and it has been game-changing. They see him as having extra needs, rather than as bad or naughty and needing punishment. This support has seen him settled down hugely in class. Teacher has helped incredibly.

1. School supports us in relation to other parents because of this - that helps a lot. Having the school on side is crucial.

SO... if I were you, I would try to move him if you possibly can. It gave him a fresh start and even though the move was tough (leaving his few friends behind) it was better long term.

I also made a point of telling the new school what they were getting into and meeting with them early to talk through what I could do with them to help the situation. That has helped to get them to see him as needed support rather than punishment.

1. We put him on the waiting list for CAMHS assessment. It took 18 months but it made school happy, they will now work with school and it gives us a label to help explain him to school and other parents. I hate him being labelled, but it helps.

1. We're about to find support to help us improve his behaviour. I'd start here even if you don't have a diagnosis as it might be helpful: www.autism.org.uk/about.aspx

1. See if there is a SEN support group in the school. Ours has a Whatapp group as a place to confidentially talk to other parents. I find it really comforting as it is hard to be the parent of a complicated child in a school and having friends helps.

Sending you lots of and also because I know this is tough but I hope you can get some better support. Mine is a changed boy as a result of school change. Not perfect by a long shot, but it did help.

Wow thank you so much ladies, juat logged in here and had a skim through your replies, thank you so much. Just bathing DC, will return later to respond but a huge THANK YOU, so much appreciated.

I hope this isn't premature, or rude. Tell me if so.

I am 29, and struggled all through primary school. Bullied for having thick, plastic glasses, braces and hearing aids. (was the '90s after all), however, I had an assessment when I was about 7/8 or so, for dyslexia and social issues. I moved primary school (into year 6) at a different school. Didn't know anyone and cried extensively. I remember the head mistress talking to me, about why I cry so much. I said "Because no one bullies me here", I was 7, I didn't know at that time "decent" people existed. Now at 29 (although I've been through the mental health system) (and no, I'm not suggesting that for your boy) I am wiser, and more lucid with my disorders (both dyslexia and mental health issues.) It may well be dyslexia or a form of "mental illness", which isn't a term I use personally. I would suggest looking into the emotional responses and care your son has at the moment. If ANYTHING seems a foot, get it checked out. Peter.

Sunshinedaisydo your son's situation sounds very similar to my own son, who is currently out of school aged 7 (almost 8). We are despertely trying to get him into a suitable ASC provision, but there is almost nothing where we live and the nearest place that could actually meet his needs is full until at least Easter! I am looking into horse therapy and forest school for him whilst he is out of school and would be interested to hear more about the pscyhology therapy you mentioned. What does this involve and how is it delivered etc? I am hopeful that with enough time to recover from school trauma the demand avoidance and associated aggression will reduce (at the moment we have violent responses throughout the day and I can't remember the last time I made 24hrs without being hit/spat at/kicked/scratched/punched etc).

Rosalux - the psychology therapy is via CAMHS. He's having weekly sessions with a psychologist who have identified that a lot of the 'weight' he's holding emotionally is due to school trauma and is slowly unpicking and validating a lot of that. She specialises in younger autistic children and is brilliant.

All the activities ds does is funded by the LEA once they realised they didn't have a school for him until September so make sure you ask for EOTAS on the EHCP not just a school that he can't attend as they then get all the money that's supposed to be used to educate him! We decided not to get tutors because ds is so bright he's miles ahead anyway but also to really deescalate all the anxiety and stress. He learns through doing, reading and talking and that's fine for now.

The ASD school wasn't my first choice as I couldn't see him there. I though everyone would be more severe and while they acknowledge they don't routinely have super bright children, they do teach 8 GCSEs and will get tutors in for bright kids if needed in other subjects. The school is holistic and SLT, mental health etc embedded in the curriculum etc. They are so understanding. Don't know if it will work long term but hopefully he can be stable there till the end of primary before we think of anything else.

You'll get there xx

Hello everyone
Apologies for not getting back to you all sooner. I really appreciate all your help.
Extremely stressful week. Headteacher permanently excluded him from current mainstream primary. Local Authority have been in contact with us and are visiting next week to discuss. I've expressed my concerns with him being placed straight into another mainstream primary as I feel he definitely needs specialist provision. His anxiety is through the roof and his self esteem in tatters. Keeps asking why he isn't at school, why don't they want me, I miss my friends and my favourite TA from class. He was brushing his teeth this evening and and asked me why he was stupid and useless and thick???! This is soul destroying! I keep reassuring him that he is none of those things and that we love him dearly. We are planning to meet up over the summer with some school friends.
We are seeing a private psychologist and hoping she will diagnose but it's convincing the LEA of this and getting him the help!!!!

@Oneineight
I think he definitely needs an ECHP. I'm grieved with the school for not doing more in a way but on the other hand they did try various things to help him although none were sustainable and very short lived. He's devastated. I on the other hand am relieved we'd been permanently excluded as it will open the door to a new setting which can help him. How is your son doing now? Thank you

@tungstenaromatics
Thanks so much. So sorry you went through such a hard time as a youngster. It's very hard trying to get to the bottom of any issues. We were starting to worry whether something more sinister was afoot with him due to his aggression and changeable moods but now think it's based mainly on anxiety. I'm really hoping that he improves as he gets older! Despite his issues he's really lovely so it's trying to find a setting where his potential shines through

@pongopongo
I definitely agree with you on having a cjild taken out of an unsuitable school. We feel in a way that our child was unwanted at the school and the Head is glad to be shut of him, so to speak. It's all about making life easier for herself. We'd rather not have him there than them have him under duress.
We have an CAHMS appointment in August so fingers crossed!! Great advice you've given, thank you. It's the loneliness and isolation that hits me the hardest. And the mums I'm on a whatsapp group with from the school are all talking about their children taking part in the class assembly which my son has had to miss and I just want to cry for him. He is so confused! Heartbreaking!
How is your son now? Hugs

@rosalux
Ah your son is the same age as mine. Still so young aren't they. I'm just worried about the effects on his self esteem as he has it in his mind that no one wants him anyway so this expulsion has compounded that.
I really hope your son soon finds suitable provision. It's so awful how they have to wait so long!! Horse Therapy and Forest School sound wonderful and definitely something my lad would love to be involved in. I'll ask the LEA lady when she comes next week.

You poor thing and your poor boy, treated so badly. I totally understand your feeling of relief mixed with sadness at missing out then realising he may not of coped anyway and the cycle continuing.

Are you able to have him at home for a while? He could go to a PRU if you felt that was the right setting while all your ducks get in order but from our perspective that would have been a bad idea to have another temporary setting. Being at home this academic year has given us time to get all the assessments, EHCP and look at new schools while ds unclenches and relaxes and has help to overcome the trauma.

Someone told me that 'we will get there' and I nearly ripped their head off but they were right. We're in a good place now with hardly any negativity. It'll work out for your son too.

Sorry to hear this. To give you a bit of hope ds1 is doing really well now. He is now sixteen and just completed his GCSE's. He finished off primary in an EBD school after a managed move to another mainstream primary failed (with the benefit of hindsight we should have refused the placement until his statement was finalised - as it was he went in with no support so pretty unsurprising it rapidly went belly up). Anyway the EBD school were absolutely fantastic with him & his anxiety and problematic behaviour rapidly decreased. For secondary he went to an independent special school which we chose because we felt it could meet both academic and emotional needs which it pretty much did (even if we had to do a fair bit of nagging over the years to make sure they did so). He will be going to a mainstream further education college to do A levels which we all think he is ready to cope with now.

(ds1 also got the opportunity to do equine therapy and forest school and found both good for his social skills and anxiety).

Do not let the LEA push you into making a too rapid decision about any new placement. Look round at any prospective schools and you will quickly gauge their attitude to children with SEN. And make sure that the LEA put in support before trying our any new placement so that it has the best chance of succeeding.

Oh OP, yes the isolation is hideous. I am still finding that tough, but I'm trying to make some friends who are kind and supportive (and I've found some there - there are understanding parents if you can find them, but it's not easy). I put my armour when I go to the school gate. But I'm lucky that the new Head is kind (she is actually worried about me!). The onld Head and teachers didn't and it was worse, so I think even if you can get to a more understanding school that will help. When we decided to move him, we looked at which state schools were the most open and good with SEN then wrote to them and said what the situation was and were they ok with giving him a space. That helped it get off to a good start.

I also just try to tell myself if my child is hurting their children, they are being just as protective as me of mine and it's not personal really (even though I know it feels that way). And that they don't know me and won't be thinking about how hurtful it is to be excluded.

My DS is much better now he has understanding people around him. He was coming home last year from old school saying "I know I'm a bad person" and "I know I'm annoying". It was horrendous. That wretched school! He doesn't do that now. I saw the Head from new school last night and she was saying how improved he is, and it's true. Support and understanding and the right environment really did make a change.

I hope CAMHS will help. I've found it helps people to be more understanding to have an explanation (so they don't just think it's your fault, which some of the (unfairly) do). They've been great to us so far.

Keep coming here for support. There are lots of us who understand. You're not alone. I'm sure your DS is really really lovely and he will get there. The school's reaction and judgment is not the measure of him at all.

These stories of improvement in the right environment are really inspiring. The situation we have is that the LA have now named a totally unsuitable school (even on the face of the EHCP it's unsuitable) and so DS1 will have to go there from September unless we refuse to send him. I really don't want EWO on my back but equally I don't want to set him up for another failed placement and more school trauma. I can't really afford to keep him at home and do all the therapies he needs either, therapies which his current MS school were prepared to fund whilst he was on the roll but which I doubt the new SS will as they will expect him to attend. We are visiting the SS school on Monday to ask them how they think they can, for example, magic up a peer group of kids in a school where a significant % come from it's sister school for kids with PMLD, for DS1 who is borderline gifted academically and where to my knowledge no child has ever gone on to sit 8-10 GCSES. Ho hum. Seeing a solicitor on Tuesday to discuss next steps and I'm already in touch with our lovely MP. But it's so hard. After a relatively nice and friction free day (by PDA standards) we have ended with a series of mini meltdowns including scratching, spitting and pushing his little brother DS2 (5yrs) over watching bloody Pokemon and I feel drained again. Doesn't help that DH isn't fully on board with the no shouting in the face of meltdown programme I'm trying to implement. Sigh.

Really hope things improve for you OP. Do come and vent whenever you need to. It's tough and I definitely understand.

Have you started the EHCP process off? If not, don't delay, do it now - www.ipsea.org.uk/ehc-needs-assessments

Thank you all so much. Sorry it takes me a while to get back to you. Still trying to digest everything. He has his CAMHS appointment on a few weeks time and will hopefully find out soon which school he will be attending in September and he'll still be able to attend his alternative provision alongside this so that's good news. I will be back later to reply to you all. I feel so much more positive for posting here so THANK YOU