Dyslexia with normal literacy levels?

[diplodocus]

Hi
DD aged 12 has had difficulties transitioning to secondary school, and is struggling to write things down, make notes etc. She also reads aloud in a halting manner. She learnt to read very easily in reception but writing (putting things down on paper, rather than handwriting itself) never came as easily. Her standard of work in comparison with her peers probably drifted downwards during primary, but there is a marked drop in secondary. Spelling and handwriting is OK.

We had her assessed by an educational psychologist who found working memory (particularly auditory memory) and to a lesser extent processing issues. However she assessed her literacy skills as average for her age, so said she was not dyslexic.

As part of the assessment the EP thought she had eye tracking issues so we visited a behavioural optometrist. The BO did an extensive assessment and clearly thought she was dyslexic (in addition to some "functional" eye issues). When I pointed out the EP had said she wasn't, she said that it may well be in a few years if reassessed she would be diagnosed with dyslexia as she is assessed against chronological age, so if she fails to keep up then she will meet the threshold. She also said DD had developed a lot of coping mechanisms.

I don't think BOs are qualified to diagnose dyslexia, but she's obviously experienced. Is it right that you have to actually have a deficit in literacy before you can be defined as dyslexic, rather than just a particular profile, or traits? Any thoughts or experience welcome.

Yes it is right, according to the Rose review and the guidelines on diagnosing dyslexia. It does not mean your daughter is not dyslexic. You may want to request a more extensive picture of her reading in the next assessment, on the word/nonword, sentence and text level, timed and untimed, comprehension speed as well as accuracy. A detailed writing assessment may also help. Best to get her assessed by a specialist dyslexia teacher (at Fairley House, Bloomfield or private) to get the full picture- the diagnosis is just as valid.

This is really interesting - thanks. Quite frustrating that an EP (at huge expense) doesn't really flag these uncertainty issues - she has ruled dyslexia out all together. Just seems strange - if she is likely to be diagnosed as dyslexic in future she is, presumably, dyslexic now, and waiting for her to "fail" in comparison with her peers seems really inappropriate assuming there are strategies that could help her keep up if put in place early.

Thanks for the suggestions for assessment - don't really want to have her reassessed straight away (partly cost, and partly she's feeling a bit fragile and coming to terms with finding out she has issues she sees as making her a bit different from her peers) but will bear this in mind.

I've had a number of Ed Psychs over the years and some are more 'into' dyslexia than others - one that wasn't,had a specialist interest in autism and was pretty dismissive about dyslexia. I've found those that have an interest in dyslexia to be more helpful.

There are many things that could be going on for your daughter e.g. Irlens, which is often connected with dyslexia. My son went to a specialist optometrist in the end and now constantly wears his specialist glasses - he could not explain what was wrong before - we thought it was normal vision problems.
I know someone who was picked up with Irlens (visual stress) and the use of coloured overlays made a huge difference to him - he was previously totally resistant to doing his homework, because it was so hard for him.
I also know someone who went through the whole of her education with nothing being flagged, but got tested for slow processing at Uni, because she did really well when she had plenty of time, but did poorly in exams. She was given a laptop to help.
If she is having difficulty tracking and difficulty with auditory processing, then copying from the board, writing down what the teacher says will also be very difficult. A laptop might help for now, but it might be worth having a chat with a dyslexia charity/specialist to get a second opinion. My son can now read beautifully, but his dyslexia still makes it hard work and slows him down.

HiCalmed
Thanks for this. She was assessed for Irlens as part of her BO assessment and while I haven't got the report yet I don't think it's that as colour overlays didn't help. She has got tracking problems though and will be having vision therapy in the autumn. As you say, copying from the board is a nightmare for her - I didn't realise how difficult it was until I saw the BO test her. The BO suggested we asked for handouts from her teachers, and if we don't get this I thought we could maybe try giving her a tablet so she can photograph the board and work with this beside her. It might at least mean she stands some chance with languages as she's copying down the words all wrong at the moment!

We'll certainly try and get her extra time as scanning exam papers etc. is really difficult for her (particularly as they give everyone foundation level GCSE paper for maths in year 7 to track progress, so she needs to be able to quickly go through and identify what she can and can't do).

I posted this on another thread but thought it might be of use...I'm a Maths teacher with an interest in how dyslexia impacts achievement in Maths, but may not be evident in English.
Though most people think that dyslexia impacts on English (reading, writing), it's not always the case. Some people with dyslexia don't have any significant problems with reading and writing, but their Maths is heavily affected. They are sometimes diagnosed as dyscalculic, but almost always wrongly.
Certain dyslexics who are highly numerate and of high general intelligence are very good at Maths. They are able to visualise problems and mostly solve problems mentally. They are often very reluctant to show their working, and when they do, it's evident that they work in non standard and sometimes counterintuitive ways. They are frequently the people whose reading and writing is somewhat compromised, and they may try to avoid doing too much of either if they don't have to.
Other people with dyslexia may have few problems with reading and writing (in fact they may write very well). I believe that these are people are those who either by accident or design learn to read using the "whole word" method, so they recognise the shape of the word, and in fact may have been early readers. Because of this, spelling is not generally an issue, though unfamiliar words may cause problems initially. However, for those who are averagely numerate, their Maths may be compromised by the processing, memory and organisation difficulties associated with dyslexia. Typical indicators are: difficulties telling the time/calculating with time; a tendency to do things "backwards", particularly dividing where they should multiply (and vice versa), adding where they should subtract; if given a problem that does not have the information given in a structured and ordered way, being unable to organise it themselves (so "not knowing where to start"); similarly if given a problem with information presented in different ways, for example a piece of text and a graph, being unable to connect the two; and finally, if a problem has been solved, coming to the wrong conclusion ("Which is the cheapest option, A or B?" They will respond A, even if their working shows B).
Both my children are dyslexic, which is why I became interested in the first place. My son falls into the first category above, though he began to experience difficulty at A level and I think dropped a grade due to dyslexia. My daughter falls into the second, and got a grade above expected at GCSE due to careful, patient teaching and methodical working.
I myself do the "reversal" thing a lot, have to watch out for it, and only belatedly realised that I'm probably a bit dyslexic as well...could read at 3 and have never had problems with writing.

DD has an unusual profile of dyslexia. Her reading age was always years ahead of her actual age - including comprehension, and her handwriting is fine. The only "normal" sign of dyslexia is that her spelling isn't great. However, she got 25% extra time in GCSEs because her processing delay is so severe. Coloured overlays helped her significantly. Very annoying for you that you paid all that money to an ed psych who has potentially missed the less traditional signs.

Could this be dyspraxia? My parents were told that I had dyslexia and then that I didn't. I was diagnosed recently but as a child my teachers thought I was dyslexia though it was never diagnosed. Dyspraxia can affect eye tracking, speech patterns and memory we aren't just "clumsy" this may be a better fit as diagnosis goes. Check out the dyspraxia foundation website for signs in children but also look at the adult section as it is a little more detailed.

Hi diplodocus, hope back to school is going ok.
I’m just reading your thread now, as I’m starting to think my dd might be affected by a certain degree of dyslexia. Can I ask if you used an ed. psych through the British dyslexic association?

It would be really interesting to know how vision therapy goes, so do post again!

Thanks

My daughter is dyslexic. Her attainment in literacy is about average for her age although her spelling is below average. However, her general ability, which I think is similar to IQ, is very high. Her assessment showed a complete mishmash of results that were all over the place! Reading speed was 5th percentile ( low) while comprehension was 85th percentile (quite high). Her processing speeds are the biggest issue for her I think, but her previous school maintained that she was " fine" ! Her spelling is awful but reading is ok although very stop / start and she stumbles over what should be sight words, still struggling to recognise the difference between "the" and "and" for instance. She was assessed by a specialist dyslexia teacher who said that her attainment was a long way below what it should be given her general ability. She's moved schools now and they've been brilliant and seem to acknowledge that there are issues there!

Hi chicken, I’m really glad to hear your dd is getting on well at her new school. Can I ask how you went about getting the diagnosis?
I have spoken to school, and waiting to hear what they can (and can’t ) do, but just wondering if your daughter’s assessment and diagnosis was through school or not?

Hi thistly. Yes, we went privately I'm afraid ! I raised the issue with school several times and it was dismissed. She'd started school flying and then really tailed off by year three. Her progress wasn't good at all, although they maintained that she was fine for her age and dismissed any suggestion of dyslexia. Their reasoning was that although her spelling wasn't great it was phonetically plausible and if she were dyslexic it wouldn't correspond to the correct sounds at all. This isn't necessarily the case with dyslexia. Given that she was still within age related expectations she wasn't a priority. I understand this from the school's point of view but it didn't change the fact that she was underachieving, so I eventually we had her assessed privately. We have a local dyslexia association who recommended an assessor and we went from there. It was £300 , which seemed expensive at the time but was a worth it. At that point she'd really lost her sparkle and was switching off at school. I just wanted to know one way or the other really as couldn't shake the feeling that something wasn't quite adding up and that we might be overlooking a problem. I felt like a neurotic mother and a bit of a tit for raising my concerns with school given that she wasn't at the bottom of her class. I'm very glad we did it though, in retrospect. We might have been able to push for an assessment through school but I have known of people trying to do this who seem to go round and round in circles before eventually going privately anyway. I think the majority of schools aren't that well informed about dyslexia and it can be a real uphill struggle both getting it recognised and then receiving support beyond that. She is now at an independent school which has a relatively high level of children with dyslexia and a very good reputation in nurturing them and helping them reach their potential.

Good luck.

Hi chicken, thanks for the further detail. It is really useful to have an idea of what to expect. I think you are right, dyslexia is widely perceived as a problem where children don’t learn to read effectively. It hadn’t occurred to me until recently that dd could be dyslexic because she does read. But she is very motivated, works very hard and seems to have found her way so far. The trouble is she has to work so hard she is exhausted. Well, we will see what the school say, and take it from there. I think it’s a good idea to get in touch with the local association, they seem to have various groups.
Sorry for hijack, diplodocus, I hope things are going well with you.

DH is extremely dyslexic. He had his own coping strategies in the early days of school and pottered along within what I guess would now be "age related expectations" initially, but gradually fell further and further behind. Demotivation set in at secondary school and he left at 16 with poor grades, poor self esteem and the belief that he was "thick" (as he knew he wasn't "lazy", his teachers' diagnosis of the problem). An insightful FE tutor advised him to get assessed a few years later. It was life changing. He now has a degree and a professional career, though it was a long hard road, and would have been less so if he'd received the diagnosis and correct support in childhood. He's testament to the fact dyslexia can be overlooked in primary years, especially if the child's other abilities enable them to compensate and develop their own strategies, partially masking the problem. Definitely worth investigating privately if your instinct is that dyslexia may be an issue.

Hi Dip, mother with dyslexia and dyspraxia here. My DD also has dyslexia. My understanding is that the ‘average attainment’ has little to do with a diagnosis of dyslexia.
A spiky profile across the outcomes of assessment is a greater indicator with verbal comprehension often seen as the bench mark for how a person should should perform across the other areas of assessment.
eg my verbal comprehension is in the 95th percentile with my working memory and processing speed being down in the 40th percentile. My assessment graph looks like a mountain amoung tiny hills, therefore a spiky profile.
My DD is similar but less spiky.
Reassessment may be difficult but it is worth chasing. In the meantime there are things you can both do. Dyslexia Scotland has great resources for adults and children including a toolbox section where children your DDs age share what works for them. unwrapped.dyslexiascotland.org.uk/
I gave up with the school system and had DD assessed by an educational psychologist with specialist qualifications in specific learning disabilities.

I have to push and push for my DD to be supported at school. She functions at average so they are happy with that. However the studies on slow processing show increased risk of underemployment, unemployment and other risks.

Good luck to you both.

See attachment for a working definition of dyslexia from Rose report. There is a lot of confusion about dyslexia.

Reply to borntobequiet:
With regard to your comment that people wrongly assume that those with dyslexia always have problems with reading and writing - if you do not have problems with either of these then you are not dyslexic. There are varied levels of severity of dyslexia, but you will still have issues in areas of reading and/or writing - which can be anything from organising your thoughts, trouble with structuring your work, spelling, punctuation, capitalisation, etc. It may have improved by the time you have reached secondary school or adulthood, but I have yet to meet anyone with dyslexia who has no issues with their spelling/writing. Many can learn to read quite well, but many find reading arduous and remain slow readers even as adults and often avoid reading where possible.

This page provides more detail on dyslexia.
www.dyslexia.uk.net/what-is-dyslexia/signs-of-dyslexia/

Here are details of how dyscalculia affects others
ldaamerica.org/types-of-learning-disabilities/dyscalculia/

My sons are dyslexic and as you point out, would always write the answer to maths questions without showing their workings and constantly lose marks for that. The reason they gave was because they “just knew the answer” without having to do any ‘working out’. They still had trouble recalling times table but both did maths A level. Maths and sciences were their favourite subjects.