Ds says he CANT sleep , what can i do ?

[crazyhamsterdisguisedasahippo]

Its the same every night with Ds 4.5 , he just can't sleep not won't .
I have tried removing everything bar his bed from his room , I kept it up for a month but it made no difference
I have tried tiring him out , it just doesn't work , he goes to nursery 4 days a week & runs round like a headless chicken for the other 3 days
He just doesn't ever seem tired .
He has a set routine so he knows when its bed time etc , when he goes to bed he just lies their talking to himself or staring at the walls for hours
I put him to bed at 7 & he falls asleep around 12 & then wakes around 4 & that's him for the day then .
I can't take it anymore & nor can Ds Their must be something I can do

Have you been to the doctors to rule anything out, get some help?
Whats he like for the rest of the day? Is he tired all day?

With the summer hols comig up... Could you try a bit of not telling him when to do go bed?! And just literally let him
Dictate when he goes to bed... Observe when he gets tired etc and maybe re adjust his routine. If he is up till 12, could he go to bed at 10pm so his lying awake is reduced.

put him to bed later, 7 is too early

Blardy hell. No idea - bumping for you. I would ask your GP for a referral to paediatric sleep clinic, and in the meantime would ask someone - anyone - in the family to have your ds overnight to give you a break once a week?

Sorry forgot to put that we are waiting on his official diagnosis for ASD/ADHD in September & his specialist said they will give him ceratonin then but we can't wait that long .
He isn't tired dure in the day either

Massage?

Have tried keeping him up late etc but it doesn't work & no matter what time I put him to bed he still is up for four

Has he had a blood test to check his vit d and calcium levels at all?

Have you got advice on how you could change his diet? i.e.. no sugar / preservatives etc and possibly no gluten (maybe have a google?)

Have you tried Piriton? Our GP prescribed it for DD1 when she had sone sleep problems as it has a mild sedative quality

It 'broke the cycle' and she was asleep within twenty minutes.

Piriton had no affect on Ds I think its because his system is use to it with his allergies

Already has a no sugar healthy diet to try & keep him calm x

ask on the sen children board. if they do not know, no-one will know.

Hallo
Poor you and DS op
We've moved this for you
Hope e can sleep soon

oo as if by magic.

Hi there Crazy - welcome to the SN board

Firstly I feel for you I've years of a child talking to himself and taking hours to go to sleep - as of today just gone down the medical route. However some things have worked on occassion for us which I'll list for you in a sec. I'm assuming your ds has no SN? ASD, ADHD, sensory issues?

Epsom salt baths really can help and cheap from the chemist - add to the bath 2/3 times per week
Move your bedtime until later

If he can't wind down then he's not producing enough of the chemical in the brain that helps us sleep. So any electronics need to off for an hour before bedtime - switch to lamps to dim lights etc. This helps the brain to produce melatonin which is the chemical that helps us wind down.
In our house we have a bed time story but on nights where ds is fractious I do the "quiet time story" which is something made up - basically ds visualises what I'm saying, so he starts in a forest and then finds a beach, swims with fish, then lies on warm blanket on beach and falls asleep, oh and the waves whisper sshhh. I'm sure you can come up with one for your ds.

Is your ds sensory seeking? Does he love and seek out certain materials against his skin? If so change his blanket to suit. Does he like to be squeezed? Maybe look at a weighted blanket?

Is he reliving his day when's he's talking to himself? Maybe change your routine so he has a story before bath, and then lie with him and tell him to tell you all the things he's thinking about.

Does he breathe okay while sleeping, it's just that my ds had an ENT issue that caused sleep apnea. Does he have any ENT issues? If he does GP can refer to ENT and they tend to run sleep clinics.

The last resort I would say is to give melatonin, which tends to be prescribed by a paediatrician. But you can also buy a spray online..... I say last resort not because melatonin is harmful but because it could be something that with a few changes you can fix. I would defo move that bedtime to 8pm though

frizzcat He has ADHD/ASD but won't have the official diagnosis until September .
His bedtime routine starts at six with bath then we chill & read stories until seven & then he goes to bed , I can't change his routine as he will have numerous meltdowns etc as he has to stick to a strict schedule .
He has a quilt & a throw as he does like to feel 'safe' .
He breathes fine in his sleep so no ent problems , I will try the epsom salts though thanks

Crazy - hope you are coping ok with impending diagnosis and in light of that you are of course right not to break your routine.

Have a look at those weighted blankets too, think they could help with the feeling safe.
My ds has a dx of ASD he's 8yrs old and I've had about 4.5 yrs of him not being able to sleep so can commiserate with the lack of break and worry with you.
If your in touch with your paediatrician or the professional doing the dx, ring ahead and discuss the melatonin option if you think it's an option for you - as with all things it doesn't work for all. We've just gone down this route today, so we'll see if things improve, although I did use the spray first and it did work.
Hope you get a break soon and at the very least some sleep.

Also are you giving him supplements?

The sleep clinic at St Thomas's hospital under Paul Gringrass is pretty good. It's well worth the effort involved in getting a referral imho. Keep a diary as I only got taken seriously when they saw it in black and white. The diary also helps no end when you FINALLY see the sleep clinic.

DS wore a monitor for 3 months. Sadly he's one for whom melatonin wouldn't work, but we were given the option of a different drug (see there are options!) which I may go with if my own health goes again due to sleep deprivation.

Relaxants, (don't sort the problem but mean DS is calmer iykwim) -

1. A weighted blanket takes the "edge" off things but isn't a cure - I've found it reduces DS's sleep walking which makes my life SO much easier though. I'll be forever grateful to Lougle on this board for helping me with this, as she makes them.

1. Epsom salt baths and a zinc/magnesium supplement take the edge off DS;s anxiety which help him relax if not sleep.www.amazon.co.uk/Floradix-Saludynam-Calcium-Magnesium-Vitamin/dp/B0013G4GAA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1372309125&sr=8-2&keywords=floradix+magnesium

1. BTW I've found mandarin oil to be more effective as a relaxant than lavender for when the legions of caring carrots suggest it as a complete cure . A massage makes DS smile

1. Trying to make sure he's sorted through in his head anything that has upset him that day with him. This is easier said than done due to his processing and social communication issues though.

DS has a movement disorder (dyspraxia?) so my theory is that his sleep issues are linked. I'm hoping that as we progress with his RRT & balance therapy his excessive movement which causes the sleep issues may also be alleviated a bit over time. You have to have hope when you've done without a nap for 72 hours or you'd go crazy.

Nothing specific to add to the good advice above but have you ruled out that there isn't a simple reason like light coming into the room or boiler firing up etc that might be waking him?
And in terms of your bedtime routine can you not shift it back by 5-10 mins for a few days until he is going to bed closer to 8 say?

Just dropping in to say sorry Crazy - you did say that your ds was waiting for dx earlier - I was on iPhone and missed that one

booby Their isn't anything in the house waking him up , he has a blackout blind & blackout curtains , thanks though

frizz

Hi,

Just to let you know that crazyhamster has asked us to move this to the special needs board.

If he has ASD then he might be like this for life.

Why is it a problem? Have some rules about him staying in his room, maybe reading and leave him to it, you need sleep.

Sash its a problem because he can't safely be left alone & doesn't understand to follow rules & has no sense of Danger .

boch Thanks I will look in to everything you have said

My 10 yo DD with AS was not this bad but recently has had trouble sleeping. my DH downloaded some sleep meditation mp3s fro kids and she listens to them at bed time which helps. Actually we leave them playing on a loop all night and she finds she sleeps better and for longer when they are left on. Maybe this is something you feel you could try?

good luck.