UK or Singapore

[Sirius9899]

Dear Mumsnetters
We are a family of 3. DH, I and son aged 12 living in Norway for the past 7 years. We like the peace and quiet life in Norway but the cold weather and a lack of social life is causing sadness in all three of us. DS goes to an international (IB school) that is partially funded by the state, so easily affordable. I work from home, DS is in the legal profession and we own a home plus car here. Overall, a comfortable life except the cold weather and socialising issue.
DH has been offered a choice to relocate to the UK or Singapore for work and we need your help in making a decision. We are British by nationality but Indian by ethnicity. Please advise the pros and cons of both places if you have experienced living in both / either places.

For UK, DS will ideally go to a state IB school and I will continue working from home.
For Singapore, DS will go to a private IB school and I will WFH.
DH's salary on offer in Singapore is at par with the offer in UK (considering Purchasing power parity, taxes etc.)

I'm sure some with more knowledge than myself will have measured advice. Personally it would be Singapore all the way for me, it's safe, clean and beautiful have only spent short times there but absolutely loved it.

Go to Singapore so you won’t have to listen to all the anti immigrant propaganda

I'd go to the UK. My sister lives in Singapore and I don't even want to visit her there. It sounds awful to me, too close to the equator, so no seasons, it's just always hot and humid, yuck.

I spent months and months of my life in Singapore, my sister and her family relocated out there for almost a decade.
it’s my favourite place on earth.
safe, clean, beautiful, lots to do.
kids also went to an international school and are so well educated. Healthcare - always great.
beautiful beaches, city and areas of culture.
I personally love the hot humid weather with the odd rainstorm.

cons- bugs/ geckos, expensive, very far from the uk.

If you don't like cold, I'd go for Singapore if possible, but get local advice and check out the package on offer; Spore is very expensive. The international schools all seem to be bursting at the seams due to the number of ppl coming in from HK and China, can you get into one you like without a waiting list?

I’m in Singapore, mixed family (Asian/white), we moved from the UK

Would recommend Singapore for safety / general positive mood / lifestyle if you don’t mind the weather - although we did thoroughly enjoy London and activities for kids are much cheaper. As PP mentioned it is expensive so double check.

For day-to-day life note that there is unfortunately more day-to-day things we come across often impacting my DH - for us it’s clear many people in expat / local families seems to have less experience of mixed families than London, skin colour may be discussed and commented on (re our DC), and interactions with locals / shops my DH has had worst experiences vs London.

I realise no-where is perfect but he feels it more here in SG

Singapore!
So warm and you can get home help so cheaply

Singapore gets a huge amount of love on MN. and I'm never really sure why, given I currently live here!

At 12 DS is hitting teen years. The pro of Singapore is it's safe, the con is it's almost too safe. My teens have found it easy to live in but definitely boring. They love heading back to the UK for the summer and a bit of gritty reality. As a parent boring is easier to deal with, but I do fear for some of their peers as we head to University years.

If he plays sports and specifically happy to play in heat he'll find lots of options. Schooling is usually great, very use to students coming and going so often easy for a teen to settle and if they don't settle most international schools are well set up with support. I presume whichever you pick you'll be staying for end of IB so think Uni choices too if living in one place helps keep fees down eg UK.

As a PP alluded to racism and prejudice aren't just a British thing, on the surface it's very open but scratch it and there's a lot of tensions.

Having recent / current experience of both - Singapore, all the way.

I am singaporean but lived in London /Europe since 19. You would need much more in singapore to live well as rents for condos are much higher than London rents (my sister's friend was paying the equivalent of 3k gbp for a 1 bed condo in queenstown) unless housing/education is paid for. Though taxes are lower so swings and roundabouts. Yes you can get home help much more cheaply. Services would be better but you would be using private healthcare as a foreigner so it can't really be compared to the nhs. Public transport is much better in singapore.

The reason why I wouldn't live in singapore is because society is much more conservative and stifling. I know many Chinese landlords prefer not to rent to Indian tenants (this is despite the fact we have an Indian minority). My dad literally complains about Indian immigrants daily/my cousin complains his condo has too many Indian expats and you can say that there are racist people everywhere but you can do a quick Google and read about the many many racist incidents and microaggressions.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/02/singapore-rental-racism-prc-and-indian-tenants-often-deemed-undesirable.html

https://www.todayonline.com/commentary/my-mixed-race-children-and-i-have-been-receiving-end-racist-remarks-how-can-we-do-better

Owners of private residential properties routinely exclude individuals from tenancy based on ethnicity, even explicitly stating in advertisements that requirements are “no Indians/ PRC” (slang for People’s Republic of China) or “no Malay.”

In singapore people sometimes stare at me and my white dh, but in london no one gives us a second look. The racism doesn't affect white expats as much unless they marry into local families like my DH did ( I am pregnant and my mum told me she hopes the baby looks Chinese cos white babies aren't as good, the only person I have ever heard express such sentiments in uk so openly is my dh's 94 year old grandpa; my mum is extremely well educated and is a corporate highflyer in singapore plus has studied abroad but she has no filter).. For Indian expats I think london would be much more inclusive.

To add to what others have said about the heat/humidity and housing. My understanding is that multigenerational 'locals' tend to be originally of Chinese origin, Malay and then Tamil speaking Sri Lankan. The frana lingua is English though. You'd presumably live in an expat community, but I don't know how the Sri Lankan community are treated and if you may experience racism from those confusing your ethic origins? As someone above said, I too have heard of racism against Indians, but I don't know if that refers more so to those doing poorer paid jobs?

Singapore is great though for trips to other parts of Asia/Sth East Asia for holidays, and not too far from Aus/NZ.

There are many expat forums you could join which might give more advice.

Native born and bred Indian singaporeans (they generally have to learn tamil at school as there usually wouldn't be enough kids to form a Hindi class) are viewed differently just like newcomers from mainland China are viewed differently from third or 4th generation Chinese singaporean. It's all in the accent as well as the names.

There is a lot of anti immigrant sentiment in singapore. Native born Indians and malays are viewed as fellow countrymen (at the very least) as they all served in the army just like the majority Chinese and singapore was founded as a multicultural society. But the newcomers can be viewed as competition for jobs, housing, healthcare etc. It's made worse by the fact that singaporeans are very insular in terms of their social circles. I realized at my sister's wedding that she has known most of her bridesmaids since age 7 and I have known most of my close friends back home since age 8 to 10.

It's a very different vibe from London where most people wouldn't have grown up in London even if they were born in the UK and even if they had grown up in london, many of their friends from teenage years would have moved away from London or they would have lost contact once they went to university. In a sense you would have to build your friendship from the expat network and not as much from the locals.

The racism applies to those from highly paid jobs. Even more so in some ways cos most singaporeans accept that we need Bangladeshi workers to build our hdb flats as no singaporean wants to be a builder in 30 degree heat. But there are many expats of Indian ethnicity who work in multi national corporations and singaporeans are really upset cos they want those jobs. Singaporeans are also obsessed with university rankings and as singapore universities are ranked highly, they see it as a virtual insult that indians from Indian universities are hired over them.

The native Indian population in Singapore is primarily of Indian origin, from India not Sri Lankan. They do speak Tamil though.

@RibbonTwirls Thank you for letting me know.