Indian independence/partition and being British

[Indiaorigin]

My parents emigrated from India to the UK and I was born here and always lived here. I don’t feel Indian.

My school was not multicultural at all. I’m not sure how to feel when I see the dreadful things that the British empire did in India and it’s other colonies.

Im embarrassed and guilty m that my country was responsible for or just stood by and watched such violence and human suffering of partition. Yet of course it was nothing to do with my ancestors (or the vast majority of the British people at the time who were not powerful either).

Does anyone else feel like me or am I just odd?

I suggest you read Empireland by Sathnam Sanghera Review

Sadly our education in British Empire is non-existent.

The book sets out the sheer brutality of Empire but also what it is to be born of Indian parents in Britain.

Thanks I’ll take a look.

Btw ‘your’ country did not stand by watch the violence of partition. It was entirely orchestrated by the British.

People in history for you to read about:
Mountbatten and his wife Edwina and their roles. Edwina was having an affair with Nehru.

Jinnah.

Cyril Radcliffe

This is the part that upsets me. Britain is my country, no matter where my ancestors are from.

I am British. I have the opposite problem to OP, my parents came from India and were delighted to come here. They took citizenship and are proud to be British.

we wouldn't dream of blaming other nations for actions taken by government so why should the British feel guilty?

a pp mentions what it is to be born of Indian parents in Britain.

everyone, everywhere, has a different experience, but I have no connection with India.

you are not odd, OP. I think I am the odd one out, I feel I have to be quiet about things.

i would suggest reading Konstantin Kisin's An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West. You are not an immigrant of course, but it is so good to be reminded what a lovely country we live in.

Thanks for the correction @Embarras83 .
One thing I haven’t looked at is whether there were political parties that ordinary people could have voted for who said this was what one and could have done something differently.

I dont feel south asian nor british, and I simulatenously feel both. Identity is complex and you are who you are. Presumably you stand with the just people and the oppressed people and those on the right side of history, whatever their nationality! Not odd at all. We dont need to take sides and we can feel conflicted - we are complex humans!

You need to read the OP again, she is British and was born here.

I too was born here but I can’t call it my country. I don’t feel British or Indian.

Regarding voting a minority of Indian Muslims c15% were asked if they wanted Pakistan. The majority were only connected by faith. For example most Punjabi Pakistanis would say even now they have more in common with Sikhs/Hindus of Punjab. The kinship of culture/food/language a common history is more than faith.

I hope you don't mind me posting- I am not south asian.
I just wanted to say I feel the same way about Ireland. I come from a long line of labourers and people who had no power whatsoever. Some of them were Irish-my great, great grandparents were Irish but I feel no connection with Ireland. I am British but my relatives would have had no power/input/responsibilities for what happened with Ireland but somehow I am supposed to feel guilty about what my country did?

Sorry I meant how much choice did the British people get in what the British government was doing. How far was there any choice. How much was the media reporting not just about the terror but about the British part in it?

I’ve never felt Indian though have tied to India. That might be because my family was a minority even in India - originally from Goa, catholic and first language at home always English (from a choice of English/Portuguese rather than local language in India.) I don’t have the knowledge of a lot of the Indian migrants to the UK, no language, not the music or dance. Yes food and dress, though I don’t wear that as physically easier with western clothes due to a disability. My father has more of it and I enjoy listening to Bollywood movie’s music but not watching as I can’t understand.

I hear what you say OP. I am an old white woman. I feel deeply ashamed of Britain's colonial past.

When I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s history we were taught that the British Empire was overall benevolent to colonised countries. The murky history of slavery was also turned into a positive because of the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act 1807. Britain was one of the first nations to stop the slave trade and abolish slavery But that in no way recognised that only Portugal traded more slaves than Britain.

Then there was the Partition of India, famine in Bengal and the Windrush and subsequent scandal. The transportation of people from the sub-continent to Africa. The list goes on and on.

I honestly think it is time the history of the British Empire was critically examined in schools rather like the way the Germans have done with Nazism. Only when we acknowledge the harm that was done by the British Empire can we move on.

Of course it won't happen under the Tories. They rely and promulgate a jingoistic notion of Britain. Brexit was underpinned by a certain view of what it means to be British.

One good legacy the British Empire is that many parts of Britain are now multi-cultural. Now that is a notion of Britishness I could get behind.

The average Briton had no choice in involvement. They were fed a lot of newsreel footage about why it was such a great thing and the answer to all India’s problems.

It was such a complex situation and would have been better left to the people of the region to sort out themselves. The British government were essentially trying to solve religious and cultural issues the only way they knew how (as in NI) by separating the opposing sides.

For context- the two sides of my family were living in squalor in different parts of working, class industrial Britain. The world was less global than it is now and their main concern at the time was rationing/ post-war recovery/ jobs. What was happening in India seemed so distant compared to the post-war rebuild. Cities were still in tatters, there was a housing shortage and many families had lost husbands/fathers/brothers etc.

When my dad talks about this time he mostly focuses on how bitterly difficult everything was after his dad got home because he had such bad PTSD.

The majority of the British population at that point were old school working class (miners/ factory workers etc) and were almost completely powerless in the larger workings of the British empire. They were just more grist to the wheel.

This is not to excuse Partition. It was awful crime by the British Empire. But the actual average Briton had almost no input into it and had almost no understanding of what was going on beyond what they were told.

But I do agree that it should be taught more specifically. We do a lot about the Atlantic slave trade and slavery in the US (which we should). But it would be better to focus on Britain’s cultural context a bit more- The Raj, Windrush, Partition, The Boer War etc to show students how the Empire came about and what the cost was to other countries.

2 books I would thoroughly recommend, both set around partition -

The Secret Children
Under The Jewelled Sky

Partition was entirely down to the demands of Jinnah who demanded that Muslims should have their own country. This is what led to the creation of East and West Pakistan. It was a catastrophic decision.

Yes partition was down to the influence of Jinnah but the British botched the whole issue. Jinnah's concern was that in a newly independent India, Moslems would be an underclass. The idea of a new Moslem country was also gained momentum because of rioting and inter religious attacks. So they appointed a judge, Cyril Radcliffe to establish the line of partition. He had never visited the region and it was simply an attempt to draw the border along religious lines. It did not recognise how communities had functioned. Why appoint someone who had so little knowledge of India and the Punjab in particular.

Secondly there was no preparation or consultation on the new border arrangements. . It was announced suddenly leading to panic and attacks along religious grounds.

Thirdly the British did not step in to stop the killing.

I agree many in Britain during the time of Empire were experiencing dire poverty, had no vote. We cannot blame them for the actions of the British Government who comprised the rich elites if the day. The same applies to the handling of other atrocities such as the Irish Famine.

But this doesn't stop us from critically evaluating the actions of Britain's past.

I don't feel English, British or Indian. I was born in England. My own thoughts are that India should never have been partitioned, religious communities had lived side by side before all this. The speed at which it happened and the violence that followed from all sides was beyond imagination.
I teach my 9 year old about this as I don't want her growing up without the knowledge of what our famillies went through. The British sticking their oar in never ends well, even in recent times.

"My own thoughts are that India should never have been partitioned, religious communities had lived side by side before all this"

my grandparents say there was enthusiasm for partition among Indians. How can we know? If Scotland separates from England, how will Sturgeon's account vary from Johnson's (substitute new PM here).

I have a friend who is trying to hassle my GPs to take her to India. She's got roots from the 19th century and I think the current climate of obsessing about this stuff has got to her.

she is pissed off they advised her not to go and we have no one she can stay with. Everyone got out. I actually asked her to stop hassling nanna because her memories are the worst.

I apologise I have just noticed this thread is on the South Asian Mumsnetters Board. I should have noticed this before barging in and posting. I noticed a topic that I feel strongly about and dived in.

I will leave the discussion now but will add that my British Indian son-in-law views are very different to mine. His family came to Britain and have done extremely well here . His family have embraced the British way of life and while they maintain some cultural customs they say they feel British. So it's a complex subject.

I was born in the UK.
My parents are Indian Muslims.
Partition should never have taken place. The Hindus and Muslims should have lived side by side just like we do in Britain.

My grandmother was 13 at the time of partition. What she lost was her opportunity for an eduction. Her parents wouldn’t let her go to school for fear she would be kidnapped and raped. This is all I know from her - the rest she still refuses to talk about. That tells me that Partition was not worth it. She never resumed her schooling.

We should also be taught about how Britain benefits from the transatlantic slave trade eg the fact that the industrial revolution couldn't have happened without the trade. The facts that the northern factories making clothes etc could only have built those economies through the product of the crops picked by the enslaved. This is everyday/poor people benefiting from the enslavement of black peoples.
I say this because people like to say only the rich benefited from the TA slave trade.