So apparently there are a LOT of undiagnosed autistic mothers around

[Nicknameofawesome]

Trigger Warning - This article contains some stories that are heartbreaking.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/26/autism-hidden-pool-of-undiagnosed-mothers-with-condition-emerging?CMP=share_btn_tw

I find this fascinating and terrifying in equal measure. I am currently fighting for an autism diagnosis for DD(12) and have realised that I am myself autistic. I find it comforting that there are others like me, terrifying that so many of us have fallen through the cracks and horrifying that some have been treated so badly.

Overall I hope research like this will help us all to get the support, help and recognition we need for ourselves and our kids. The system has been broken for a long time. Diagnosis is difficult to get and to find that some mothers have had issues themselves and been questioned about their parenting because of their own autism breaks my heart.

I never thought I could be autistic but I didn't struggle academically (I'm a B student through and through) and I can empathise with people. I am perfectly capable of identifying with someone who is hurting it's other stuff that baffles me like how to do small talk, how to relate to someone I have nothing in common with or how to know when to shut up...

My own research and talking to family and friends about it has made me realise how little most of us know about autism. I don't fit the stereotype but I do hit 90% of the things on a list of Aspergers traits. It doesn't make me a bad mum but it does make certain things a huge challenge for me.

I hope this is the start of some hope for myself and others in my situation.

I only do drop off now due to work, and I'm usually one of the last so not much chance to talk to people except very briefly (and I have the fab excuse of "train to catch" if I start feeling awkward!)

Yeah, like you - my DS is the only one with an official diagnosis close to me, but my mother is certain she's somewhere on the spectrum (she had no clue before I talked to it about her) and I know my sister and aunt and quite probably grandmother would be there as well all on my mum's side.

There is my uncle on my dad's side too who has a more recent diagnosis - when I think of how my parents used to talk about how my grandmother indulged him and mocked what were clearly meltdowns over what seemed like unreasonable things to us.. obviously my mum feels bad about that now (my dad passed away a while ago) I guess his mum had worked out what worked and stuck with it, and wider society saw it as spoiled whereas of course it probably wasn't. He has an Aspergers diagnosis, gained in his late 50s, but I'll eat my hat if he doesn't have PDA too.

Does everyone else find organisation difficult?

I'm just having a little panic because my dc started preschool today and I:

• didn't label any of his things
• put some of his belongings in the wrong place even after being told where the right place was
• still haven't paid and don't understand how to even though they've given me an information pack that's supposed to explain it all (but I just find it all so confusing!).

I was too embarrassed to tell anyone so I just left dc there and ran but they're obviously going to find out .

Yep. Id begun to think I was add (I don't think I'm the h) but maybe it's not. I've a super high iq and if I have I've masked whatever is up with me well. Life shouldn't still be such a struggle at nearly 40 thoigh should it.

" I get too emotional/cross when people are lying or not listening properly."

YES! I get sooooo frustrated I feel like stamping my feet and crying when I don't get listened to or believed. I hate being accused of lying as I don't lie, as a general rule, and I hate being lied to.

I also feel that I have underachieved. I'm not genius but I know I could get higher marks in anything tests I have done. I scraped piano exams because I HATE being watched, I failed my first driving test by making a huge mistake because I panicked, I was crap on my 2nd driving test even though I passed and my instructor said what a good driver I was and I had a natural ability for it, my French oral exam didn't go well because there was the pressure of being watched.

I don't have a problem being organised. I am hyper organised and am well known for how organised I am. If any school mums need to know something you can guarantee they will ask me. Every part of my life is carefully detailed and organised. I'm not sure how usual this is with asd though.

" I get too emotional/cross when people are lying or not listening properly."

Oh god yes, me too and (weirdly?) I understand exactly why you've put the two ideas of lying and not listening together in the same sentence. It's like a continuum of inexplicable things that people do that lead to miscommunication, inexactitude and 'wrongness'. (That looks a bit mad written down but Im not sure how else to put it )

I'm there with the wrongness. I dont really get why people would lie to me and I end up oversharing if asked about something. I do know friends who come across muxh more "autistic" though with amazing memories and will correct people mid conversation if facts are wrong. I dont have a great memory and feel self conscious correcting people although I think I n eV er know when it's okay to but into conversations of school.mums or not. And I do want to share my experience if I've researched something well.

I may well not be on the spectrum but I do share some traits at least.

Yy to getting emotional/cross over people lying/not listening. I also get really upset when I'm (or anyone else for that matter) wrongly accused of something and not believed. For example, I can work myself up into a total rage over those threads where mners post about minor injustices from their childhood - it really gets too me. I was quite surprised to read that that's common in people with aspergers.

Harry it's interesting that you say that you're hyper organised. People who don't really know me think I'm extremely organised because I live through calendars, diary, to do lists, etc, but tbh these are a coping mechanism that I fall apart without. I wonder if the same is true for you (or maybe you just like being organised!)? At work I have a little notebook I carry around with me where I've written down everything I need to do during the course of the day. Before I started considering asd as a possibility I always wondered how my colleagues managed to just remember everything; now I'm wondering if this could be why.

Oh god, yes to being accused and not believed! When I was about 7/8, we were on holiday with my GPs, my friend and GPs relatives. Someone farted in the caravan and they all blamed me, it wasnt and I told them but they were all adamant. I stormed off and was in a right rage about it. I don't forget ridiculously minor injustice at all. I think it's because I know I am honest and if I'm lying it is really obvious therefore people should know me well enough to know that I'm telling the truth.

Hmm, I do enjoy my lists and calendars etc. It makes me feel safe and secure. But without them, I wouldn't manage, I'd forget everything and feel totally lost and disorientated. I was ok at jobs, because they were pretty simple and repetative and I would follow the same routine. However one job involved having to be interrupted if a more junior member of staff had some work that needed urgently sending out and I had to check it first. I was well known for HATING this because they had to interrupt me. Didn't stop them doing it though. I also hate being interrupted by the phone because I don't like stopping what I am doing.

I am going to be applying for jobs soon and the thought of having to learn something new and remember it is filling me with dread. I am going to have to write it down.

Is the honesty/sense of injustice/dislike of lying an asd trait? I don't think I am, but the biggest upsets of my life have been around feelings of misrepresentation. I also hate being made fun of - it feels cruel.

I wouldn't cope without my calendar either. If it's not in there, it doesn't happen. Either that or I do whatever it is right away before I forget. People tell me how organised I am, especially with four young DC, but I'm nothing without my calendar. I didn't find it that hard to be organised though as, like has been mentioned, I've always had to have such coping mechanisms to avoid failure, so having DC meant little as I was already a calendar junkie!

I also have a very very low tolerance for injustice and lying. I've always been more mad over lying about a crime than the crime itself (unless it's murder or something!) and I hate people who are deliberately duplicitous or manipulative. I drop false people like a stone, whilst tolerating a lot of behaviour that many would see as unacceptable or rude in others, because at least I know they're honest!

leftover similar here. There is a mum at school who seems to rub a lot of people up the wrong way, she's very abrupt and to the point. I really like her. You know where you are with her and I know how to take her and how to handle her. Others just see her as rude, I honestly don't think she means to be, its just her manner. I appreciate people who are 'what you see is what you get, no airs and graces' I can't stand false people at all. I stepped back a friend after realising she isn't as nice as she appeared and could be pretty bitchy behind people's backs. I stepped back from another friend as she would be so lovely and everyone's best friend but she would always be wrangling to get her own way in the group. They would all give it to her as well even when its not what some wanted. I was the only one who would say "no I don't want to do that" and I ended up ostracised from the group because I refused to follow the herd and wasn't afraid to say no. That wasnt allowed apparently.

tormentil, I'm pretty sure they are. I've seen them listed on a list of female traits.

It's so funny, the constant forgetting was one of the reasons I thought I couldn't be asd. I thought they often had razor sharp memories or photographic memories or something!

Totally Harry - the number of people I've quietly distanced myself from after seeing them be bitchy. I mean, as teenagers, it's more to be expected but not in women in their 30s and 40s and beyond. I've developed an extremely low tolerance for drama as it sends my anxiety through the roof, so at the first sign of it (and bitchiness often is) I just disappear.

Sure, I may have drastically narrowed the field of people with who I can be friends but my life is a lot more drama free and so much better as a result!

Those who have some ASD traits - have a read up of ADHD in women - especially ADD. I dismissed it out of hand as I wasn't bouncing on the sofa but I regret that now - so much also applies, in fact I think ADHD fits me even better than ASD does. The two conditions are often hand in hand.

This thread is setting me thinking. I'm currently being treated for PTSD which I would say is largely related to bullying and social isolation over a long period of time. I've largely thought this to be related to a dysfunctional family - but I was definitely weird as a child and I do have that honesty/injustice side. I'm also socially isolated which is so painful.
When I was younger - I'm 51 now - I was very high functioning and was able to be proactively social, but I 'm burned out and don't have the energy to be proactive in that way anymore and life has left me behind.

I always wondered whether I didn't meet the triad of impairment wrt theory of mind as logically I could understand that people saw situations differently. I could puzzle out why (though this takes effort and is conscious and exhausting, I always consciously try to imagine what I might think in someone else's circumstances, but struggle if they don't react the way I think I would?

However, that absolute sense of injustice over not being believed - I now realise that's because it was obvious to me I was telling the truth, so I thought other people ought to be able to see that too, it didn't really occur to me that they couldn't know it was the truth because they didn't know what I knew. They were having to guess from what I said. So I had thought they were being very very unjust to claim I was lying.

The things said up thread about the benefits of a diagnosis in later life have got me thinking because previously I have been quite content with my self-diagnosis. My impression when I researched this in the past was that as I am currently coping (and may or may not meet that third triad), that there would be no interest in diagnosing me so I might find that I went through part of the process and then feel worse if they didn't diagnose me with something I think definitely fits when I have found the self diagnosis so helpful. I'm more compassionate and accepting when I feel awkward or anxious and can now focus on working through it rather than despairing over why I just don't get it.

However, if I had realised this was a possibility when my anxiety was so bad that I was agoraphobic, it might have helped my mental health treatment.

I spend a lot of time writing longer posts than most people choose to because I am trying to be clear and not misunderstood. (But still often re-read after posting and am disappointed if what I have written isn't clear.)

HarryPottersMagicWand I alsways find Harry Potter related usernames on MN friendly little beacons (even though I couldn't think of a good one for my last namechange that wasn't taken so used an obscure Pratchett witch reference instead).

It was reading about how autism presents in females that made it click for me (previously hadn't considered it because I had misconceptions of autism, like the empathy thing, which I think I am overly if anything). The thing that clicked most was that whilst boys with autism may escape into facts, girls might escape into fictional worlds instead and use them to help understand social interactions - it even referenced Harry Potter specifically.

Harry Potter has a huge fan dedicated fan base so it didn't really occur to me that my interest in it was unusual, but after considering it, I remember being puzzled by fans on podcasts who can recount the number of times(often smallish) they have read the books. I can't. Very frequently, I get to the end of Deathly Hallows audio book, and immediately start with Philosopher's Stone again (with occasional breaks for other favourite books). I live in them, in a fairly constant state of re-read. Those people who have read the books e.g. 12 times are dedicated, probably neurotypical fans - it took a while for me to realise that my level of engagement in the series is probably a 'special interest' that would look excessively obsessive to other people. If I have difficulty understanding a social interaction/circumstance in real life, I'll often try and find a comparision to a point in the books to understand it.

The posters with Pratchett NNs are generally good sorts too

Interesting that Harry Potter was specifically referenced . I have a Hogwarts dressing gown. It's fab! My friends think I'm sad. I've read the books quite a few times, no idea how many, I'd say I have a good level of knowledge and I can remember facts and details if its a particular interest. I'm forever pointing out all the back story/differences when we watch the films. I did have a lot of Harry Potter lego but I sold it when i was trying to save money for a house deposit. I hugely regret this now. I'm gutted about it.

I forget day to day stuff and have to write it down but I can have an amazing memory for certain details (and remember it in pictures), particularly if it was an injustice or affected me emotionally in some way. I reminded my nan the other day that I desperately wanted to see PJ and Duncan when I was 13 and they were nearby. She wouldn't let me and wouldn't give a reason (she would have had to take me). I RAGED about that and trashed my bedroom. I've never forgotten it. She says she doesn't remember and said she must have only just learned to drive, she hadnt, she had been driving for a few years. She can't understand how I remember it that well, it was 22 years ago, but I do, exactly! Same with other stuff from even younger. Earliest memories are from 2 years old (unfortunately mainly bad), some stuff very vividly, often connected to high emotions. No idea if it's an aspie thing or not, just something I've always been able to do. If its not something that interests me or isn't significant, then I don't remember it at all or remember some and can picture it but won't remember specific conversations or details.

I love the Harry Potter series although I'm not fully obsessed. I have many many other very deep obsessions. My user name giving a clue to the current one Obsession is undoubtedly what I do best and where I feel safest.

I can remember loads from my childhood, but having done a survey of friends (with lots with ASD etc), I asked them how many teachers names they could remember from primary school, could they remember every classmate's name, stuff like that. Was testing if such memory is linked to depression as there's a theory that people with depression remember stuff better and non-depressed people just forget bad stuff.

Anyway from about 50 non-scientifically-selectef results, it suggested that all my friends can remember huge amounts of certain stuff but may not ever know other things - the number who said they never knew the names of their infant teachers, or got through all of primary with only knowing the names of half a dozen kids in their class, was huge!

Which clued me in when ds started complaining about "not knowing" any of the kids in after school club, and could get help being introduced to children he'd likely get on with, until he managed to recognise them.

When I was in secondary, I created detailed notebooks with spreadsheets, trying to understand my year group, rating each person on general coolness, attractiveness, how intelligent they were, how much they smoked, etc. This is now hugely amusing 20 years on as theres a really obvious correlation between how much they smoked then and how much older than me they look now! Thankfully no-one else ever read said notebooks, though once did have to explain that I was producing statistics of numbers of interchanges for each London Underground line.

I should point out that I learnt classmates' names from the register being called daily (so clearly I important), and matched them up by where they sat. Took years to identify them in the playground.

:) Manumission

I did make it sound like I do nothing but listen to Potter, I do have other interests! Even on the audio front I'm enjoying listening to some Discworld books I haven't read before.

I think my memory is similar MagicWand

I too crumble with injustice (to me - can be a right warrior for others. Anyone wanting advice on PIP, just ask...), which meant as soon as work introduced a system where 10% of people had to be deemed inadequate, via various discriminatory measures, I had mental breakdowns. I eventually managed to get agreement to have a bad rating if it meant I could avoid the long process (and others wanted the same, happy to forego 'excellent' and a 0.1% pay rise if they could opt out of yet more meetings). Trying to explain what i had problems with at work, while making clear what I was still damn good at, was very hard, especially when it boiled down to "my manager is a two faced @#$%"!

I thought of this as when I was a kid one thing I really struggled with was other children lying to be "funny", especially "I'm six and a half" "well I'm six and three quarters" (a lie), with first child then going "well I'm six and FOUR quarters" and me being violent for about the only time, trying to get them to admit numbers have meanings, you haven't just got older, and you know four quarters plus six would mean you are seven, argh why isn't the whole world exploding in a puff of logic?

Cut to 35 years later and 8yo ds (has ASD) is jumping up and down screaming "You aren't five yet, dd!" 4yo dd "I'm five, I'm five!'
Me and ds in unison, "Stop lying!!!"
Dd: bursts into tears.

Similar to people who make spelling and basic grammar mistakes - there are rules and you aren't following them, so how can I know you are going to follow other rules like say not being violent?

People seemed to use to get that but in recent years it's waah elitist dyslexic disablist... Thing is it's hard for screen reader users as well as people whose mental health is affected, so disablist goes both ways, and most people who are actually dyslexic find misspelt slangy textspeak hard too (MrNC is severely dyslexic and I have to read lots of things for him). It's usually pretty obvious if someone is finding writing hard (and I manage to control my response and have sympathy), vs the ones who just don't think it matters (see disablist point above).

My, that was therapeutic! 😂
I award myself extra points for forbearance when people claim to be 'obsessed' with various children's fiction but refer to 'Mallory' Towers and can't remember anything nor look it up...

ThirdThoughts - Yes!! I always write too much, and read and re-read, and it's because of what you say - I want to make sure I've been clearly understood. Not left anything out that might affect things.

Ironically probably the length of my posts means people are more likely to skim read and miss out the most important parts ;-)

I could name every infant and primary teacher, how do people forget that? When i was at primary, 2 classes to a year, I knew every child's name. I have no idea how! Its not like I was friends with them all. At secondary there were 10 classes in our year, i knew everyone's name. I can probably name most of the teachers i had at secondary as well.

Such pointless information.