Maker's Club: Please tell me if this business idea is crazy or not.

[Ippagoggy]

I have this vision for a business idea. Am appealing to mumsnet users to gauge whether there is appetite for this kind of thing or if it's just a pipe dream...

The idea is that of a "maker's club". You can think of it as a gym or private club but for people who love to make stuff, learn new crafts/skills, etc. The idea is that it will offer:

• classes : for skills like pottery, sewing, knitting, wood-working, hobby electronics, programming, DIY, etc. We would also have children's clubs and classes as well. I love the idea of being able to sample many different crafts all under one roof.

• studio space and access to machines / equipment : people can book in the studio (outside of class times) to rent a sewing machine on the premises, or 3d printer, or what not. There will be deposits involved to encourage respect for the machines/equipment. Imagine an online booking system where you could reserve a sewing space every Thursday after work, or perhaps a 3D printer over the weekend, etc. Certain tools will require waivers to be signed or attendance of certain classes beforehand (here I'm really thinking some heavy duty wood-working stuff).

• there will be a cafe / small library for people to take breaks and hang out. The library will hold books related to the various skills/crafts involved.

• on site maker's store : where you can buy supplies that go with classes, e.g. limited selection of fabrics, paint brushes, etc.

• creche that parents can drop off their children : with the theme of a mini (safe) studio where kids can do messy play. Would require pre-booking.

I haven't even thought about the fee model; whether membership model and/or pay-by-class / drop-in model.

I appreciate there might be similar outlets already, but the ones I have sampled are either too focused on the 'established' artist/craftsman, or are too focused on the class/learning element rather than letting someone loose to practice a skill in their own time and at their own pace.

This would be my idea of heaven to have access to place like this all in one building, and especially where I could drop off my kids for a few hours at a time. However, very few of my friends are as maker-mad as I am so I am wondering if this would even have a market. So perhaps you can help me with this poll.

Putting aside the viability of this (this might also be dead in the water from an economic and/or insurance perspective) and asking purely 'How exciting does this sound'?

I'd love it but as part of a small group of new potters who meet at a friend's house, using her kiln, my first query would be, what happens if a piece of equipment breaks and that's the one piece everyone needs (like her kiln, which has indeed broken) and what happens when someone wants an expensive piece of kit that the fund cannot afford?

Look up Hacker space (I think) in Nottingham.

@AlisonDonut Great question. I'm thinking about this on quite a large(ish) scale and that the experience for the member/customer should feel like they are dealing business rather than, say, a community club that is relying on the good will of club members.

Think of it as gym: if a piece of equipment (e.g. rotating climbing wall) breaks, you might accept that it's broken for a day or two (things do happen) but then you'd expect it to be fixed fairly promptly and for this to be communicated well. I'd want the customers to have that expectation here too and for us to deliver. Perhaps that means having at the minimum 2 kilns. Maybe it means that there is a 'firing schedule' for most regular users and if you wanted to operate it under your own settings there would be dedicated times in the week to do that but with a deposit paid as we are trusting you to know what you're doing. (Pottery is something I've actually never done, so I'd probably want to consult with some pottery experts, but definitely with the view for provisioning for exactly this eventuality. Similarly for all other expensive equipment.)

I'm all for this sort of thing. I'd have loved a open dark room when I was doing photography. I am trying to get a skill share type of thing up and running where I am, but what has happened when I've done this sort of thing in the past is that you end up doing all the organising and no actual doing of the thing.

Do you have much knowledge of the crafts you'd be making space for? If not, when you add up the cost of equipment, premises cost, insurance, gas/ elec (presumably high if you're using kilns!), wages to keep it open for enough hours to be useful to people (some wanting daytime usage, some wanting outside of daytime usage), repairs costs (high if you want quick repairs) and consultancy from experts for each craft, I would be surprised if you could make any sort of profit.

I'd strongly advise you work out how many people subscribing you would need to just cover costs. I suspect it would be huge.

From the point of view of your question “how exciting is this?” - very! That special point of any business where you are focused on the IDEA, the potential, the opportunity is always the most exciting part. Enjoy that exciting part.

There are then lots of parts where reality starts to set in and inevitably starts to drain the excitement - but it doesn’t mean it isn’t possible.

From my experience (2-time business owner), if you can identify the market and solution(s) to the problem(s) they have then the biggest obstacle to it working will be time.

Time for you to get it where you want it to be. Time for people to learn who you are and realise you exist. Time for people to take the leap to come along/join. Time for word of mouth to spread, marketing campaigns to show returns etc.

And time requires money.

Especially when it comes to brick and mortar things & equipment (again speaking from experience), you need a lot of money - not just for securing the location, works, equipment purchasing etc but enough to give you the time to get known (eg in my first physical business, I budgeted 6 months of running costs and massively regretted not having at least 12 months).

I think the idea sounds amazing, I love building spaces where community can grow. I’d say you have 3 options for how you can do it:

1. make it more ‘for the community’ than for profit so you can make most of social entreprise funding and other kinds of grants designed to pour back into communities
2. get an investor (but you’ll need to be able to prove the potential profitability of it)
3. have a giant pile of money you can put into this with no ramifications if it doesn’t work.

None of that is intended to be negative or pessimistic etc just realistic and thoughts based on my personal business experiences thus far.

If YOU believe in it, follow it. Follow your excitement. Do it. Make it happen. Why not?!

@123ZYX @AppleCobblerPie Thank you both for the input and the words of advice and caution. I really do appreciate it.

I agree that the costs (even mentally) are very, very high to set up up a bricks and mortar place, cost of equipment maintenance, salaries. Easily looking at a several 100k a year minimum.

However, before I even put this in a spreadsheet, I wanted to see does this idea even appeal to other people? I would easily put the money that goes into our gym membership into this club if this existed close to home/work. But my DH, absolutely not. He thinks (not in a mean way) that I'm like a bit of a child when it comes to my hobbies. I get so excited about this stuff. I spend hours tinkering away in my 'woman shed' when I have free time making useless bits; and pre-kids I used to love taking classes on different things. But the question is: do other people? Or am I really in a minority that the above would have such a tiny market that this idea would never get off the ground? My suspicion is that I'm going to disappointed... but if so, perhaps I'll try to pivot and think more about this from a 'kids' angle and allow grown-ups (like me) to participate. We'll see :-)

I think a lot of these skills are an art form, and calling them hobbies really diminishes them.
I think it’s a fabulous idea though and if it was near me I’d definitely use it. It should be easily accessible by public transport. Look up the cost of commercial kilns if you haven’t already- eye watering. One big kiln is better than two small ones. Also maybe be prepared to start in a smaller space offering fewer classes and expand as needed.

What is your main reason for doing it? Do you want it to earn money or do you want to gather people together over a common hobby?

If the latter, you might be better setting up something like a "knit and matter" in a hired hall or room in a pub, where the group shares the hire cost and brings equipment that they're willing to let others try out

Where in the country are you going to be based ? I absolutely love this idea . I'm not very social so don't want to join a club , esp with people who may already know each other or have different levels of skills.
I wouldn't be interested in accessing a crèche nor would I want to be surrounded by children whilst I did my many hobbies .
Love the idea OP !

I love the idea and would definitely like to try it but not sure whether I would join it like a gym - I guess it would depend on the cost

This is an excellent read and gives good insight into the finances. I know it isn’t your model, but it’s a similar set up and well worth a look. They do courses as well as free access to tools. It’s volunteer led.

nottinghack.org.uk/minimum-membership-fees/

And interestingly there’s a similar set up spreading for allotments. What you might call ‘serviced allotments’ where there are tools kept on site, and they will weed and pick for you if you aren’t around. Plus a socialising area and classes, regular maintenance etc.

@123ZYX Why do I want to do this? Honestly, the reasons are pretty selfish. They didn't come from profit, nor from wanting to do good for the community; it's because such a place would serve me very well (if I were a customer/member).

Pre-kids, I tried all sorts of things: wood-working, metal work, sewing, etc. One thing that annoyed me is that when looking to try out these art forms / skills / classes, I'd have to spend quite a bit of time online researching different places / studios / etc. to find what I wanted. I wished there could be one reputable, welcoming, well-run place that would organise all of these things and there would just be a robust menu of crafts/arts/skills to choose from. Also, ideally it would be somewhere that I would enjoy coming to and wasn't in a dingy warehouse in some part of London that I would be afraid to walk to late at night on my own. Some places I went to were fantastic; others much less so...

And, in many cases, I wish I could have access to equipment outside of the class to go at my own pace (here I'm particularly thinking of woodworking), without the pressure of having to show people that I'm actually an expert at what I'm doing (which I'm not)!

Obviously it would be great if we can create a community, and make a profit, but really this is just my 'dream space'. :-)

It is an idea which would appeal to me and to many I know but experience suggests that a lot would depend on the business model and membership model. I am aware of three set ups which include parts of this (there will be many more obviously). One is a newish pottery set up in Cheltenham, classes plus self working sessions. One is an organisation called Edinburgh Open Workshops which is much what you propose but with less textiles and more wood. One is a small charity running art and craft classes. I know of a couple of places run as social enterprises which do bits of this. Neither has really taken off enough to come out of needing grants. You will need quite big premises as many crafts cannot share space, pottery really needs a dedicated space as seriously dusty.
As you imagine it and describe it it sounds heavenly but reality is that it would take a lot of money, space, staff and compliance with rules. Could you start with one area that you know about, are passionate about and would be less expensive to set up? Possibly textiles as this is cleaner and sewing and knitting equipment cost way less than kilns and wheels.

@KeirSpoutsTwaddle This Nottingham Hackspace really does look amazing!

I think you're trying to do too much and the costs would cripple you. You're seriously underestimating the cost of running a physical premises even before you get into the colossal amount of money you'd have to borrow to own the equipment you're talking about, and the huge cost of servicing that debt. Also the hard truth is that the vast majority of adults are occasional dilettante dabblers in this kind of thing at most and would take e.g. one evening class, go to one pottery hen party. They will have to be well-off adults too. Your principal market is probably going to be classes for kids paid for by wealthy parents because they vaguely think that Crafty Stuff is Wholesome. But they will also drop out constantly.

You might be able to make a premises like this work for one dedicated craft, if you are smart and savvy enough to milk your target market (which will not be your core crafty people) for every pound it's worth.

Yes - there is a demand for this type of facility. However and it's a big however certainly in the south it will be the property costs that kill the idea. A similar business has just folded near me - well run, classes / sessions programmed over the full week, pretty much fully booked. Massive hike in rent (which they couldn't cover with reasonable price increases) and bang - no business.

Looked into it myself before covid - £18k rent, £10k business rates, would have needed new kitchen, loo, plus all the kit (kilns - you're looking at £2-3k for a decent, medium sized kiln, wheels £2k). Worked out I would need to be working the capital virtually 24/7, 365 days a year. And this space would only have been big enough for pottery alone.

I don't want to knock you back - I thinks this sort of space would be brilliant but to run it as a profit-making business would be location dependent.

However there are a couple of models that might be of interest - Hackspace and Makespace Oxford
https://www.hackspace.org.uk/
They are more focused on IT and DIY type activities . There are 2 near me and they appear to be thriving. They are run on a not-for-profit volunteer basis.

https://makespaceoxford.org/meanwhile-in-oxfordshire/
Again I think volunteer run and working out of temporary accommodation

Good luck !

I would definitely use a place like this as would my DH. I can see it being incredibly expensive to run though

A couple of other options (that echo some other posters’):

• start in a smaller space with this one described in your OP being the vision board/ultimate goal. Let the demand dictate the capacity/size/scale of space.
• create the community first (I’d recommend doing this regardless). What if you created this all WITHOUT creating the physical space for it yourself? You start the community of women/people who, like you, are so very passionate about crafting, learning new skills etc. You collaborate with locations/studios/spaces and facilitate the classes, workshops, socialising etc happening. Build the community first and, again, if and where demand dictates it you open your own space. In fact given how passionate you are about this and the biggest question you have is “are there others like me?” you should most definitely start a community around this!

xx

We have a couple of low cost versions of community style at our local open space community centre does drop in groups with different themes. They provide some material like weaving a rug, plus you buy tea n cake then chat and craft. Appeals mainly to the retired and disabled community. Plus a men’s shed which fixes things for a donation or free they do all sorts of woodwork or electrical. Plus a painting pottery cafe. So not in-depth skilled craft but very accessible craft with a focus on building community connections.

This is an AMAZING idea @Ippagoggy Have you thought any more about it since posting?

I would say:

Focus on one, ‘clean’ craft area such as textiles and machine sewing.

Forget the creche. That is a big commitment for staffing and facilities. The suitable ‘creche’ age range is actually quite small and you will restrict your market. By the time children are aged 7+ they can easily take part in tailored workshops. Other people (e.g. anyone with no children or older children) may actively avoid anywhere which says ‘creche’!

Parts of it sound very appealing to me. Basically, the combination of classes and equipment rental.
The other parts of the idea don't seem to fit well, especially the creche, which seems to over-complicate the idea massively.
And I think that you would have to focus on one area of crafting - say, textile crafts , rather than textiles plus pottery plus woodworking, etc. Each craft type would need its own studio and have its own health and safety issues so it would be hideously ambitious to try and over multiple craft types.
This scaled-back version of your idea would be extremely attractive to me. But, then, it is also something that is already offered a bit. There are quite a few places in my area that provide sewing classes, cafe facilities, supplies and a few sewing machines for example.

If you could make it work, I would join.