Nasty client - WWYD?

[Selfsabotagesocks]

I started freelancing a few weeks ago. My first client is lovely and very happy with my work. I'm winning more and more work from her!

Second client: was SO nice to begin with. I met her last week and spent the afternoon with her (she wanted me to stay and meet everyone, show me products, show me around the office etc). Then she went quiet for a few days. She's recently got back in contact and suggested she'd pay a max of £9 hour (negotiated down from £15 which includes SEO, design and copywriting!). Then she negotiated 3 days a week down to 2 and then again down to 1....

Yesterday I was in hospital in the afternoon. She emailed at 4pm. I was in hospital until 6ish. I then went home and slept as I was extremely tired and in discomfort.

This morning at 9 I received an email which is horrible, full of nastiness suggesting I'm not flexible and not available on demand.

She's scared me tbh, knocked my confidence and I want to bin her off.

Are clients usually like client 1 or client 2?

I'm also looking for a permanent role but freelancing until I can find a job!

I hate it!

They are normally very varied! It sounds like client 2 had best intentions then highest ups gave her shit about pay then monstered her on some sort of deadline and she's passed that stress on to you. Did she know you were in hospital? Was this on agreed working day? I think you might need to agrees firmer scope of work of when she can / can't contact. It sounds like a Comms breakdown to me. Hope that helps.

Freelancer here. Honestly, you get a mix. Although I've got more like 1 and I bin off any that look like 2, because it's not worth the hassle.

You do get people trying to take the piss, and then trying to make it your fault when the piss gets taken.

If that client is reducing both hourly rate and days worked, it's clearly going nowhere as a relationship. I'd cut your losses; aim to resign that client/bin her off ASAP and replace with someone else.

Onwards!

@Baggingarea she is the owner. And she wanted 1 day a week. Which was scheduled to be Fridays.

😔 I'm going to bin her off. I didn't think I'd have a client in the shit list this soon!!

@NightmareSlashDelightful Thank you, this makes sense. Very level-headed mindset. Love it x

Unless you cannot buy food, I'd bin her off. I'd write something like, "Unfortunately I am no longer available to work with you."

If you wanted to say something else you could add, "PS my rates are non-negotiable. I wish you all the best in finding a freelancer within your budget." But I suspect she's a narcissist (side note, why are you meeting face-to-face with clients? You can find them with much less hassle on Fiverr and Upwork, don't waste your days on unpaid stuff) who showed you around to impress you with her amazing company and now she thinks you're suitably impressed and "hers", her mask falls off. And you should never get in an argument with a narcissist, they HAVE to have the last word so just ditch her and steel yourself for not responding to the 1 star review.

Honestly I wish I hadn't got burned out working for shit and demanding narcissistic clients. Think of it this way, every hour you waste trying to pander to her is an hour you are not getting paid by a good client.

Hi, freelance here too. You're going to come into contact with a whole range of different clients, just as the world is full of a range of different people. Sometimes it will work perfectly, other times not so.

With this one, I would simply contact them and say "I don't think we are the right fit to work together, best wishes for the project".

Then pursue other clients but have more confidence in yourself! With that one you dropped your rate from £15 to £9? That's a 40% discount! Would you accept a permanent role with a 40% reduced salary?

As a freelancer, time is money. Don't waste your time on clients who don't want or need what you are offering.

Very true! Thank you.

I haven't had any luck with Fiverr and Upwork. I'll try again

I've found it easier to win work face to face. I have no idea why 😂

I can market a house brick, but I can't market myself. (True fact!)

She wants to pay you less than minimum wage (which is £9.50 an hour for adults) and is being difficult already… I’d be looking to throw this one back in the sea as soon as you practically can. I hope you’re feeling better now.

If you're having trouble finding work, promote yourself on LinkedIn. Label yourself a contractor rather than freelancer. LinkedIn is where I get all of my work now. Either direct requests from companies or contracts offered through agencies.

Not self employed so maybe I'm underestimating how difficult it is to find new clients but please bin her, you're clearly offering skills and experience that others appreciate and value - you shouldn't negotiate your salary down by 40%- know your worth! Good luck replacing her and hope you're okay after the hospital

£9 an hour is insulting. I know it's easy to say when you have to earn money to live but if you can afford to bypass this one then do.

I think I just rolled over and accepted it because I didn't want to fail 😔

Thanks everyone! Really appreciate all the comments and advice

I live in a part of the UK where there are very few creative / marketing jobs and they're all badly paid (Marketing Exec NMW) and so 100's of applicants apply for each vacancy so the job hunt is a battle. An administration role is about 400 applicants.

The job market is booming but its definitely regional. I wish the ONS would recognise this when issuing press updates on job vacancy stats.

Some thoughts - mainly in agreement with others.

• her suggested hourly rate would be illegal as it is below minimum wage
• your 'normal' hourly rate is very low - as a comparison, we charge over £130 p/h (inc. vat) and while that includes using us for many more consultancy type roles, it would also include any SEO / marketing / etc. we do
• The hardest thing to learn is that you can say no / goodbye to a client (do it well - e.g. 'thank you for your recent email, however we don't offer discounts on our hourly rate, and it would appear that the job is no longer what we originally discussed. As such we are not able to work for you any longer, all the best for the future.'
• The best thing you can do for your business is learn to say no
• If you do wish to continue with her (many difficult clietns can be very good long term financially, so don't run away from every moment of conflict), then re-establish the relationship. e.g. send an email saying 'thank you for your recent email - I am sorry you felt that I was not instantly available, but as you will be aware I have a number of clients and can be working for a number at one time. I am always happy to be contacted by email, or (when free) by phone, and I am generally available during office hours. If you need me outside that time then I can do that by prior arrangement. Regarding your desire to reduce the cost, thank you, but my fees are non-negotiable, if you would like me to work for you then the rate is £xxx per hour, invoiced on the xx day of the month and payable within xx days.' you need to re-establish your independence and authority here.
• work of this type is very often done remotely, so your location is irrelevant, you can be picking up SEO and marketing work worldwide - we have clients all over the world, many of whom I have never met...

This happened to me in the early days too. More than once! I totally get why you let her haggle you down and it's not unusual for that to lead to further chipping down or 'scope creep'...next she might start adding in work that wasn't agreed or protest to you including time on phone calls and email as billable (please please tell me you track time on emails/calls/meetings with clients, I didn't initially and realised I wasn't able to make a living doing that which in the long run doesn't help my clients if I can't actually afford to keep working for them!)

You have to see yourself as a business and be protective of yourself as you would be an employee you care about. As a PP said £9/hr is an insult and under minimum wage. To be honest £15/hr is low as it is. Your clients don't pay NI contributions, holiday pay, sick pay or anything else that might be a perk of being employed like healthcare or pension contributions. They get flexible, cost effective labour that they can cancel any time (within terms agreed of course).

You deserve a client that sees the value and appreciates the quality of the service you provide not just after the cheapest deal.

It's totally normal to be fearful that client 2 is the norm and 1 is a unicorn. But my personal experience is completely the opposite.

Also, your hourly rate is not up for negotiation. You don't walk into Tesco and haggle the price of eggs. It is what it is.

(When you feel more confident it might be worth looking at project fees or retainers instead by the way as working per hour kind of punishes tou for being efficient)

I'm confused how she can be a client if you're still negotiating over day rates and number of days. Had you actually signed a contract with her?

In general, never agree to a rate cut unless:

• you are desperate
• there is something about the project which benefits your business (e.g. I'm doing some work at the moment on a reduced rate because it's using a technology I want to gain more experience of - short term pain for hopefully future gain).

And definitely don't agree to the terms of a contract being changed after it's been signed, without renegotiating.

Check your contract, what does the termination clause say? I would execute that with some of the words suggested by other posters - I don't think we're a good fit for what you need, all the best.

@Selfsabotagesocks oh well then she just sounds like a nob if she's the owner. Bin.

You get such a mix. DH and I run our own business, and have a retail showroom. We spend thousands a year on investing into books/displays and do home visits etc. We've had one client recently that we've spent around 20 hours with to date, and wants to know every single minute detail so is equally intense and draining. We costed in her project, and she then had the balls to ask if she got the main supply herself online, would we just make it for her.

I nearly told her to fuck off. But didn't.

Deep breath, know your own worth (ie not £9 an hour, that's just fucking rude) and say you're unable to work with her further from today.

Ive found the less you charge the more clients like 2 you get. Charging more can, not always eliminate some of the 2 clients and you get a higher % of 1 clients.

Do not let this put you off. There is good and bad everywhere. The good thing about being a freelancer/self employed/running your own business is that you are allowed to decide who you want to work for. I run my own business and after many years of trying to please people who don't appreciate my value or are just generally rude I've just decided not to work with people like that anymore. I know you are just in the beginning so that might feel like a silly thing to do to be turning down business but in my experience you always end up making very little money from people like that for an awful lot of stress (and it is also really satisfying when you get to turn the tables and tell them that YOU have decided that you'd rather not work with them)

You don’t need that, there is plenty of good business out there, you don’t need an unreasonable client.

I definitely agree with ivykaty44. When I started out, I wasn’t confident enough to stick to my rates so let pushy clients beat me down or demand tight deadlines. It was always these clients —and never the ones who accepted my rates/deadline without a qualm— who were the ones to complain, make a fuss or nitpick. I don’t accept them any more (OK to ask for a lower price, but not OK to push once told no) and as a result, all my clients are type 1. It’s odd, but there it is: the less they pay, the more they will complain, waste your time and sap both your energy and your confidence. Don’t let them in the door!