In bed, but how to get to sleep?

[anais]

My ds is nearly 5. He goes to bed around 7 - 7.30 (although it is not a strict bedtime). If he goes to bed much later he is grumpy and bad tempered the next day. The problem is, although he goes to bed without too much trouble, he doesn't go to sleep. Some nights he is awake until as late as 10pm. He will often get out of bed several times for drinks and wees, despite always having some water beside his bed, and always having a wee before he gets into bed.

We try and have wind down time before bed and stay calm and quiet, but it doesn't always work out.

Any tips on how to get him to go to sleep once he's in bed?

Is it dark and quiet in there anais? Does he know not to talk to you etc when he gets up for a wee/whatever? Just that I know my ds will easily stay awake past his (7.30 ish too) bedtime even once he's in bed if I'll talk to him since I'm often in my office in the next room and he knows I'm here. If I tell him firmly to go back to bed he will but if I let him chat he also will, which isn't surprising really I suppose! The only thing I can think of is making sure it's really boring so the only option he has is sleep. Sorry, maybe someone else will have some better ideas.

My sister has this with her ds, same age. What works to keep him in bed is having a book tape on quietly.

You could also try a star chart? We've just started this for our dd2,3+3m, and I was amazed how fast she understood it.

Does he sleep late in the morning? Does he do enough exercise in the day? My sisters boys have started Karate and he's asleep in 1/2 hr on Karate nights!!

www, his room is dark, but unfortunately not all that quiet - his room is next door to the living room where I'm moving about and with the tv or music on. We're also on quite a busy street with cars/people talking in loud voices/police cars up and down the road all the time. It's unavoidable really, especially at this time of year with the windows open.

He insists on telling me when he gets up for a wee, but other than that he's pretty good and will just say good night again when he goes back to bed. He knows that once he's in bed he's meant to stay there, so he doesn't talk to me much, but he does spend AGES in the bathroom. I've stopped him locking the door now so I can monitor what he's up to, but he often has to be reminded several times of what he;s doing, and to hurry. Otherwise he generally stays in bed - although not necessarily lying flat in his bed - he wriggles and squirms and can't keep still!

Batey a book on tape is a good idea - might block out some of the background noise a bit. Thinking about it my parents always used to play music to help us get to sleep.

We used a star chart ages ago to keep him in the bed and that worked, but I can't see it working with getting him to fall asleep - I don't think he's consciously staying awake, just can't drop off to sleep.

He doesn't sleep late in the mornings - he's usually up at 7 no matter what! Exercise is another thought though - he used to walk miles all the time, but as dd can't walk as far as him we don't do it so often. I will try and wear him out more - although I often find that when he gets lots of exercise he just needs even more to wear him out next time!

Thanks for the ideas so far - keep them coming, please!