DD age 2 has NEVER slept through the night and currently has 6-7 bottles a night - can't carry on like this - what do I do to change this behaviour? help please

[sunshine17]

My DD2 is 2 on Monday, I also have a 3.5yr DD.

Up until Christmas DD2 went to bed fine - put her down with a bottle and off she went.

Now I spend up to 2hrs till she sleeps - she has to hold my hand.

She goes to sleep in a cot next to my bed. When I'm ready for bed I go to sleep in the spare room (I'm on my own during the night) until she wakes up (anywhere between 11 - 1) and then I go into my room and she comes into bed with me and has 4oz's of water in a bottle.

She then subsequently wakes up 5-6 times and the only thing to get her back to sleep without too much screaming it a bottle of water - until about 4.30-5am ish when she refues that and it has to be milk.

At best I get 1-2hrs of catnapping during the night - it can't continue for both our sakes.

I struggle letting her cry too long - for her sake and for the sake of DD1 - I then REALLY struggle to get them both back to sleep one my own.

Please please tell me some steps towards stopping this behaviour and getting her to sleep in her own bedroom - i don't care if she wakes once, twice or three times as long as it isn't 8+ and in my bed!

I work p/t - i'm v.v. tired, I want to do something this weekend to start it off.

I have put a childrens mid sleeper bed in the spare room and I tell her she can sleep there wants she stops asking for Mummy in the night - which she nods very enthusiastically at in the day!

Help very much appreciated.

Seriously, 6-7 bottles? Have you spoken to your GP about it? It seems excessive.

DS (3.1) wakes often in the night and has a drink of water before he goes back to sleep, the difference is he helps himself. Is it worth trying to give her a non-spill cup that she can help herself from?

I can feel you pain as my dd was the same i used to take 4-6 bottles up with me everynight till she was about 4... I am sorry as i cant remeber how i got her off the bottles... but i do know that she is 13 now and never even has a glass of milk!!

it wont last forever
if you are strong enough you could try the controlled crying routine

that sounds really bad, poor you, hope tonight is better.

my first thought is, does she need the extra water in the night? does she drink enough during the day? if she drinks a lot, maybe have her checked by the gp as it can be a sign for diabetes for example.

can you go away on the weekend and leave her with your partner to brake the cycle?

have you read the no cry sleep solutions - this has some very good advice on how to get older children to sleep, it teaches about sleep cues and methods to gte children too sleep and as the name suggests is doesn't involve crying. I found it very useful when DD1 was 2 and still not going through the night, its not a quick fix but we saw results in a week and DD1 was sleeping through within 2-3 weeks of starting the programme.

Could you try the bottle fairy instead of dummy fairy?
Leave the bottles out at night for the fairies to take away and replace with a toy
everytime she asks for a bottle remind her the fairies too. Them away and gave her said toy

Wow that is quite alot. You have my sympathy I have a very early riser and even that feels miserable, you must be on your knees.

Is your DD sleeping in the day?

I know that this will be very unpopular but I would cut down on any day time sleep (45 mins max). Then you go in and comfort when she wakes and then leave without too much attention. She will cry loads, you just keep repeating. Don't stay and don't give water (make sure she has plenty in the day).

I have the Elizabeth Pantley Sleep book and I tried loads of the techniques. TBH I had to do the comfort and leave to cry. You have to think about your sanity too.

Good luck

you need to google dr jay's night weaning. i did this from breast feeding - at about 22 months, my ds then went on to sippy cup of water then nothing. it was hard at first and i did it more gently than even dr jay says, - over about four weeks. i explained to him before hand, 'when we go to sleep tonight, mummy will say lie down, and cuddle you but we can't have water all the time, just a little bit in the morning. ' there was some crying, and sometimes i gave in but eventually he accepted it. now finally at 2.5 he sleeps from 8 till 3.30-4. he can only fall asleep with his hand on my bosom, but at least i am getting a bit of sleep now. hope this helps.

does she drink alot during the day? if yes, maybe check with gp, but if not it could be just the sucking action that is soothing for sleep

Thanks everyone. It's crazy and I know it won't always be like this (DD1 was crap until 2.5 but she was always in her own room).

I have seen a consultant at the hospital about the excessive amount of drinking but he felt it wasn't a physical thing but did say until she didn't have any water in the night he couldn't test her urine very well - the one time they did a prick test her blood sugar level were ok.

I make sure she doesn't have more than 1hr 15mins for a nap because anymore and she takes hours to get to bed (unlike dd1 who dropped naps v. early at 18 months and was completely overtired).

Hand on heart I can honestly say I haven't had a full nights sleep for four years - I look and feel 10years older and I should be in bed now but I feel like it's the only time I have to myself.

I need to know I'm not the only person this has happened too! and there is light at the end of the tunnel so these comments really help.

To clarify - go in comfort - let her cry for a bit - then go back in?? I know she will do this for hours and hours and hours :-(

honestly try dr jay's night weaning. i read every book on sleep ever, this is the only one that i felt i could do

Good idea to rule out diabetes/up the drinking in the day so you know she really isn't thirsty.

Think it sounds like dd needs to learn how to self-settle if she has got used to going to sleep with you by her side and when she wakes she wants her comfort back, you.

Jmo, but I would put her into her own bed in her own room, read her a few bed time stories and then lights out/dimmer/nightlight on and go from there.

1. with dc1 I would leave the room, and then return in 30 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 min, 1 min, increasing the time gradually. No talking, no eye-contact, just pottering around tidying and banging about a bit in other rooms, and he'd drift off. Eventually I'd lengthened the initial time so I could pop back after a reasonable 5 mins and he'd be asleep.

2. Dd2 wasn't having any of this and would wonder around with me! So I would sit with my back to her in her room after story time/lights out and then move gradually towards the door. This worked for a bit but dh said I was making a rod for my own back as it was still taking upto 30-40 mins and it wasn't teaching her to self settle. So just decided we'd simply do no talking, take her by the hand back to bed every time she got up. First night it was about 15 times and it just gradually reduced and reduced.

Maybe someone will come up with a better idea, but just thought I'd post what worked for our two; sleep deprivation is torture, and you and dd must be so tired.

This sounds like a complete nightmare and you have my upmost sympathy.

DS1 was a bitlike this but he is 9yrs and my memory is very hazy. I do remember feeling physically ill, he really nearly broke me and I am well hard normally.

I do remember doing something called "gradual retreat" (might be wrong about the name) suggested by Dr Tanya Byron where you need to sit next to your child the first night until they fall asleep, the next night a foot away, 3rd night 2 foot away until you are gradually out of the room. You can take it at your own pace. Basically, you have to gently wean them off needing you to fall asleep with.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Ok, so once anything medical has been written off, there is no reason at all for your DD2 to be having 6 - 7 bottles a night (). How many ounces/mls is she taking at each?

How does she eat during the day? Does she still have a lot of milk them?

Unfortuntely if its not medical (ie thirst through diabetes) you need to stop this right away.

I appreciate it will be very very difficult, but 6-7 bottles a night at 2yo is frankly ridiculous

Is she settles by the sucking? Does she have a dummy?

If you're not keen to replace the bottle with a dummy then you need to do some serious withdrawal as this is beyond if not due to thirst. If comfort, at 2yo there are other ways of conforting her.

I have done controlled crying twice with my DD and the results are very very quick as they soon learn they're getting any bottles/cuddles.
The technique I used was in 'teach your child to sleep through the night' which explains controlled crying properly.it is very misunderstood I think.I never left her for more than 10 mins and she was sleeping through after one night.It was hard though and I hated it BUT it did have fast results.
I read the No cry sleep solution and found it wishy washy.

Your HV may be able to refer you to your local children's sleep clinic.

Mumcah, that's not really CC though is it?

CC is about lengthening the time you leave them

Acheiving 'success' in one night sounds harsh. and The whole 'they aren't expecting cuddles' sounds very sad.

If I was that distressed for whatever reason, how fucking sad that someone left me to it for ten mins just because they deemed it appropriate, so that I 'didn't expect cuddles' the next night.

OK, thanks everyone for all these ideas.

I am confused - I have to pick something and stick with it but in my befuddled state it seems impossible to understand.

I am not normally like this with DD1 - I kinda knew what to do and just picked a day and did it.

In a moment of madness yesterday I took the sides off her cot and re-arranged my (OUR!) bedroom - she is still next to me - last night I had to hold her hand each time she woke (and give her a bottle).

It's weird when she wakes - it's like she goes from being completely asleep to bolt up upright saying Moggy (milk) or Water and then screams blue murder.

I have also put a bed in the spare room which I tell her she can have once she stops having bottles like a baby during the night.

This is what I am thinking although it scares the daylights out of me.

Get the fairy bottle to take all the bottles away and leave a present instead (my other DD has a bottle of water before bed but I think she'll be fine with this).

Stay with her during the night when she cries

That's it.

What's she like in the day time?

She has a nap around 12 - 1, I've started to wake her if she's still asleep after an hour becuase I've found otherwise it's a good 2 hours to get her to sleep at night.

She eats well and is generally fine and happy and gorgeous!

To explain the nights more clearly:

I put her to bed around 7.15 after a bath and a bottle of milk/water.

It takes anywhere up to 1hr (sometimes 2) till she falls asleep - she sits up in her cot, tries to engage me (which I don't do), till eventually she lies down and asks for my hand and then drops off - I creep out.

I make up 4 bottles with 4oz of water in each, then somewhere between 11pm - 1am she wakes - I go into her give her a bottle with 4oz of water in and she drops off (holding my hand of course). No bottle and she becomes hysterical - DD1 sometimes wakes and it all kicks off.

Then during the night she wakes another 6/7/8 times - sometimes only 1/2hr after the last bottle - around 4.30/5ish she will only take milk (i bring a bottle up with me) and i reuse one of the now empty water bottles - again between 5 and 7 it could be 3 times.

It's bloody ridiculous and I'm sick of it (and her during the night!) but because there is so many things to try and 'break' I just flounder and carry on with what I'm doing.

I cannot for the life of me imagine a time when I will put both my daughters to bed and then wake up with them them in the morning after having slept all night (feel like crying now)

I would say, get some good sleep. Then go hard on her for a couple of nights. No milk after she's brushed her teeth (it leads to tooth decay anyway), just water. Preferably from a sippy cup, but you could use a bottle at first. Maybe you do the first half of the night and DH does the second.
The next day don't let her nap too much, so she is nice and tired at night.

I never had this problem as I got rid of night feeds asap. Also got them on to one of those anyway up cups asap. And just gave them water at night.
If it is hot they maybe thirsty at night, but giving them milk is bad for the teeth, and too much milk stops them eating enough but doesn't provide long lasting nourishment.

I would never wake her at 11 ish for a bottle. If she wakes naturally give her water. Do make sure she has eaten enough (lots of carbohydrates) close to bed time, and it should get her through the night.

But do catch up on your sleep somehow and do it when there is nothing important the next day or two.

Good luck!