Please help, getting desperate

[skippingturtle]

Help! My baby is a week old and is taking forever to go to sleep. She will doze in my arms, or fall asleep whilst breast feeding but whenever I try to move her to her moses basket she wakes up.

We're spending more time trying to settle her than she is actually sleeping.
Last night she was waking about every hour.

I can't tell if she's hungry or just over tired, she's just fed for 20 minutes until she was impossible to rouse, and sure enough, after 5 mins in her moses basket she's crying.

Please help, I'm so tired.

poor you. i emember how you feel, my ds was very poor sleeper too. woke every hour at least, for .... wait for it 20 months!

he did sleep quite well being rocked in his pram in the day and early evening so i made the most of this.

i used to get in to bed at about six pm and just try to catch snippets of sleep in between feeding.

swaddling helped alot, but i had a winter baby so was easier for me. you could try swaddling in a muslin cloth

a freind had a rocking stand for a moses basket that worked well.

in the end we co slept, still do at 2 and a half. he has never slept through once but you need to rest as much as possible during the day

Your baby is still very little and will take a while to adjust to life outside the womb. It could be that she has wind and has fallen asleep in a milk haze, then the wind wakes her up.

Are you winding her gently after each side you feed her on? My advice would be to wind after every feed, otherwise you will regret it as the wind can wake them up again! Good luck and congratulations on your little bundle.

this is what babies do i'm afraid!

My top tip is to lower your expectations so that you don't add frustration to your tiredness. I can remember what a huge shock the sleep thing was when DS1 was born, it's like having a very insistent alarm clock going off randomly all night. What you describe is all quite normal so if you can, try and accept it, you'll feel less out of control (though still tired!). It will get better!

Thanks for the replies.

We are swaddling but what I'm finding so difficult is that she's looking so ready for sleep but three hours later I still can't get her to go down.

Three hours awake is quite a long time for such a liitle one. Is the issue not that she won't drop off but that she's not happy sleeping in her basket?

yeah I've been thinking about that too, she has slept like a log both times she's been in the car seat, coming home from the hospital and going to the airport today to pick up mum. Not so keen on co-sleeping though.

Darling, she is still very little. Don't panic at this stage, really, don't. The only thing I can think of is to make sure she has enough milk.

Take account of the feeding intervals, as we had a problem with this. Everyone insisted DS was "hungry" whenever he cried, so he ended up getting lots of snacks, but not enough proper feeds. The "hind milk" (full fat) doesn't start until 10-15 mins into a feed, and before that it is just "foremilk" (which quenches thirst but does not satisfy). If you are not getting to hind milk on feeds, you have to space them out a bit, not just feed when the little one shrieks.

The are all sorts of reasons for crying and not settling, not least the dreaded Colic. Also, I gather that too much hindmilk can cause upsets to the tummy. For example, DS went through a green poo phase as his milk was going though him too quickly.

I know you have a lot to think about at this stage, but do have a think about what else she could be crying about, and don't assume it is hunger prompting it. If you need to space out the feeds, distract her through the period when you would normally be feeding again, and stretch out the interval, then feed when she is properly hungry.

I hope this helps, and is not me getting the wrong end of the stick! By the way, do feel free to ignore advice which does not fit at all. People will be full of advice for you, without having filled up on the facts first!

Good luck!

have you got a good pram with a carry cot?

also make sure you are not having too much caffeine or onions.

Thank you pluperfect and houseofmirth, I'm getting really upset about facing another night and you've been very supportive.

In terms of the feeding, the midwife this morning said to keep the baby awake long enough to make sure she's doing good long feeds, and therefore avoid the snack feeds. I got into a cycle yesterday of short snack feeds and short sleep periods with the awful 2 - 3 hours of waiting for her to sleep prior to each one. Today my feeds have been longer (40 mins to an hour plus a couple of 15-20 mins) and she had a whopping 4 hour sleep in the middle of the day.

I've now been trying to get her to sleep since 7. If newborns are supposed to need so much sleep would a big sleep of 4 hours in the middle of the day ruin bedtime?

I'm with you on thinking of why else she could be crying, but I've no experience with babies and don't yet know her well enough to judge between over-tiredness and hunger. I think I know the signs of wind, and we have been burping her.

Will try to adjust my expectations, but after a pretty awful delivery and the dreaded hormone crash I'm in tears rather a lot!

When my baby was this young I did pick up put down with her. I noticed if she was being held she would sleep through her next feed - ie stir very briefly after 3 hours and then go back to sleep.

When I knew she had had a good feed I would put her in the cot/pram, she would wake and complain, I picked her up until she calmed down and then put her back down and so on. I didn't leave her to cry.

It took an hour (possibly more) the first time and then less each time and after 3 days she would lay in her cot awake and go to sleep.

She was my 4th though so I was more confident in what I was doing and had already tried and hated co-sleeping and slinging with my previous so I knew that was an option that wasn't for me.

If you're happy to co-sleep and use a sling that is a lovely nurturing baby centred way to go and it isn't forever.

Hi cargirl, is 'pick up put down' from the Baby Whisperer?

I suppose that unless I know she's fed strongly for 40 mins + I wouldn't be confident that she'd eaten enough to try it.

Yes, I can't face co-sleeping. I do have a sling, and plan to try it out in a couple of days (we only got out of hospital on Saturday afternoon so haven't ventured far yet). To be honest it's the night times that really upset me, lying in bed stressed waiting for the inevitable grizzling then crying.

I didn't expect having a newborn to be easy, I just really want to enjoy my baby.

yes from the baby whisperer but I was never rigid about it all. Like I said she was my 4th so a bit of experience behind me with newborns. I also had large birthweight babies and bountiful milk so they got lots of milk with little effort on their part

I would keep an eye on whether she is actually feeing when latched, is she swallowing or just comfort sucking. I was a mean mum and tried to help keep them focus on the job in hand, stripping them, water on the face etc when really desperate. I used to wake them during the day if they'd not feed for 3 hours.

It may well be muddling through for a few weeks whilst you both learn to breast feed etc.

big hugs and the first few weeks/months are so tough.

sounds like you are going about the eating issues the right way, this will settle her more.like you said - you are then confident that she has had a good feed and can work on that basis for eradicating other reasons ( not comfy,windy,etc) for not sleeping.

the best way for sleep at this age is really with mummy.she wants to still be tucked up inside you, all warm and hearing your heartbeat.so the next best thing is with you!

i had a hard time at night, my LO was very windy and we did alot of bicycle legs to get rid of the wind, walked LO around ( i know its knackering), and fed alot, to get LO to sleep. Then after a couple of weeks, i started doing the lie down breastfeeding at night ( get HV or lactation consultant to show you) and this saved me! LO fed as much as wanted, drifted off to sleep AND SO DID I !!! i was worried about crushing, but you wont and you will feel so much better than getting up and down.

its so tough and there are lots of tears, but it does get easier.hang in there.

I know; I got really annoyed at the people who kept telling me to "go to sleep" when DS was sleeping, because they didn't understand how hard it is to sleep when you fear being woken from a deep sleep. It feels worse than not sleeping, at least that was what I decided.

So your being on edge is natural and understandable, and it is annoying when other people don;t understand about the "lying in bed stressed waiting for the inevitable grizzling then crying."

As for the number of sleeps in the day, that will not necessarily ruin sleep at night. After all, little ones do sleep A LOT. Even when they get a bit older, they wake up in the morning after a longer sleep, go a couple of hours and then want to go to bed again! Literally 2 hours after getting up. It is so weird that you probably won't believe it (I didn't), but once you accept it, you can enjoy it!

Newborn baby sleeping patterns seem very odd, because their tummies are just too tiny to hold much, so they need to feed every few hours. Therefore, if you can get the feeding right, the sleeping will follow. If your little one is snacking, she is probably hungry, and therefore tired. If she gets a good feed, she.should take the chance to have a good sleep.

Good luck!

I am going to go somewhat against the grain here and say that you shouldn't be trying to space feeds at all at this early stage. Just feed on demand.

I would also abandon the idea of a set bedtime for her this soon. I used to have DS with me downstairs in the evenings, it was when he did a lot of his feeding. Look on kellymom.com for info about cluster feeding.

The first 2 weeks are really hard, then it does get better. And it gets better again at 6 weeks - I promise.

At this stage she just wants to be tucked up close to you. If you can accept that and just relax and follow what she wants for a few weeks then you'll be much happier.

I so remember that feeling of exhaustion and weepiness. I had a long and traumatic birth and after the first few days I just felt terrible and really struggled. It does get better

Well, we survived last night much more successfully, she slept for longer chunks and I made the feeds in the night last a lot longer .

Managed to get her to take a dummy which seemed to satisfy her need to suck without it being me she was sucking! Also put a roll of bolster round the edge of her moses basket to make it more enclosed, and she seemed much happier in it. If either of these things are high up the list of things that incense MNers please don't tell me off, I cry easily at the moment!

It seems that she gets less sleepy as the day goes on, regardless of feed length it's impossible to get her sleeping between 7pm and 10pm. Tonight I tried feeding then bathing thinking it would relax her but she went completely demented! Perhaps I just need to accept she won't go down until later?

Thanks again for your sympathy! Onwards and upwards.

NIght night to all fraught new mums out there.

kalo12, no I'm afraid we don't have a carry cot. No caffeine or onions either!

alibaba, I was feeding on demand but that meant that so many of the feeds were snacks and ended up with shorter sleep times. I too had an awful birth, and I'm sure that increases the weep factor!

Yes, definitely accept that she won't go down until later. DS came to bed at roughly the same time as us until he was at least 6 months old.

Very pleased that last night went better - nothing wrong with using a dummy, we used one with DS from about 10 days old to give my poor nipples a bit of a break occasionally! Just make sure that she is still spending plenty of time at the breast, these first weeks are incredibly important for establishing milk supply.

have you tried infacol? if it's wind then that may help? we used it a lot.

Also my daughter used to take ages to go down, then I read somewhere (possibly baby whisperer) that actually holding them and trying to soothe them may be the problem.

it said imagine if you were held when you wanted to go to sleep. so i tried putting her down and she was better.

Great news. It is all a matter of feeling your way, at this stage. You are doing much better than I was at this stage: I was hallucinating through lack of sleep - dreamtime bleeding into wakefulness - and didn;t know about Mumsnet!

Keep on.

And when you get a bit more settled in night feeds, invest in some television series boxsets. I found that half-hour programmes got me through a feed each, and gave me something to look forward to when getting up. This doesn't apply, of course, if you are co-sleeping or feeding lying down.

Good news that you had a better night!!

And congratulations on your new baby, sorry it was a difficult birth.

Sounds like you're doing fine!

Some things they don't tell you before you have a baby:

1. Most babies want to be held - ALL THE TIME - Moses baskets and cots just don't cut it!! Start using your sling and accept that some of her sleeps will be on you for now. Good idea to make the Moses basket mimic the feeling of being held - you could put the T shirt (or whatever) you've been wearing in there too so it smells of you.
2. Little and often is how some babies prefer to feed and in fact it can be better for their digestion than having a big belly full of milk less often. Don't worry about the foremilk/hindmilk business (the kellymom website is great at explaining this sort of thing).
3. What the others said about accepting that broken sleep is part of the deal. Once you relax more about that and realise you CAN cope, you'll feel happier about it (it worked for me!!)
4. It takes a few weeks for babies to suss out their Circadian rhythms (the difference between day and night) - but don't worry, plenty of day sleep shouldn't generally impact badly on night sleep. In fact, good day sleep can often mean better night sleep.
5. This works and may help your baby settle to sleep better
6. Enjoy your baby!

Thanks again for your supportive replies. Don't feel such a basket case during the day!

Will have a look at the kellymom info regarding length of feeds (obviously they need to be long enough to get through a DVD box set episode ).

30mins+ is for a little later, once Baby is more efficient at extracting milk. Till then, it is often a long affair.

Just popping back on to say yes I used to wake mine during daytime hours if they hadn't feed for 3 hours but outside of 7am-7pm I just fed them when they woke ie fed on demand you really need to especially if they are tiny. A bad birth experience does make it all harder btw. Be kind to yourself x