Insomnia in 4 y/o?

[TruthSweet]

Can a 4 y/o suffer from insomnia? DH & I have both suffered from insomnia all our adult lives but I didn't think children had it.

DD1 (4.4 y/o) is often up until 10/11pm even though she has gone to bed at 6-7pm with her 2.7 y/o sister. She sobs, plays with toys, read books, comes downstairs for a poo or generally faffs around in their bedroom (this impacts on DD2 sleeping).

Last night they went to bed at 6.30 (follow a pattern - get undressed, clean pjs/knickers, brush teeth & toilet, 2 books read to them, kiss and cuddles with baby sister/mum/dad, chose doll/book for bed, tucked in and goodnight). She came down for a poo at 7.30ish, came down as she had had bad rememberings about crocodiles at 9.30ish, heard her clunking about upstairs at 10 but was asleep at 10.30 when we went to bed. Woke DH up at 12 and at 1 with bad rememeberings and then slept through until 9am this morning.

When we explain she needs sleep for her to grow/so she can run around and
have fun/not get ill she agrees she needs to sleep but she has 'bad rememberings' (nightmares/daymares) which are usually about dinosaurs/crocodiles/things catching her or chasing her/events from the day with a 'horror film' twist. She had night terrors from about 18 m/o but hasn't had any for about 6 months.

She is tired all day and whines all the time. She doesn't have enough energy to walk any distance and begs to go on the buggy board which she can't really as DD2 needs it more. Plus it's difficult to push when she's on it!

She doesn't watch adults TV only Cbeebies/childrens videos but seems to have a very vivid imagination and a gruesome interest in accidents/people being ill.

Has anyone else's child had sleep issues like this?

I don't know, but like you, I have suffered from insomnia since I was 13 and have a 4.5 year old whose sleep patterns are very, very similar to yours.

Thanks expat - is your dc going to school in Sept? I'm really worried that she will not enjoy school (and she's REALLY looking forward to going) as she'll be too tired.

I should have guessed insomnia might run in families she's already got the asthma/excema/allergies from both DH & myself!

Anything that works for your 4 y/o?

Yes, she's off to school in August.

I have no idea what works because I often have to use Piriton, melatonin, tranqs myself to get to sleep.

I can't get off to sleep. Once I'm there I can generally sleep 6 hours and get back there even if I wake.

But some nights I can sit up till 4AM before finally getting to sleep.

Even piriton doesn't help her sleep. We haven't given it to her to make her sleep but she had an allergic rash last week so had a dose of piriton and was still up late!

I'm a lot better when I'm bfing at night as I get all the sleepy hormones but when I'm not I can be awake all night and still not sleep until the next night.

We have tried giving 'good rememberings' to combat the bad ones. On Saturday night we spent about 45 mins talking about days out we've had, various ice-creams DD1's eaten, kittens, funny cakes (she loves cake wrecks website) and other things she could think about if the bad thoughts creep in.

I haven't tried Piriton on her. Might give it a go.

I have to down 20mL of it to get any effect on me, and that's combined with three tabs of melatonin as well.

Even when I've had a GA, the anaesthetists and nurses all told me I reacted to the drugs to wake you back up and then needed serious tranquing to get back down.

The last GA I had, I got up and about immediately after being moved to a room and later a doctor had to be called back into my room to tranq me back down because it was 3AM and I couldn't get to sleep.

My DD is exactly like this. cranial osteopathy works really well with her. it's like flicking a switch.

I have 5y/o not sleeping and sounds very similar to yours. She does everything to be up and goes toilet dozen times. Asks for hot water bottle, asks for apple or drink, puts light on and reads her books, walsk around other rooms upstairs. Last night i found her in guest bedroom. I went in to out printer on the bed and realised something long was on it, had sudden fear, then realised it was my dd sleeping
I never heard of piriton use before. What does it do?

Brown - Do you do the cranial osteopathy your self before bed?

Diva - Piriton is an anti-histamine and a side effect is it can make people drowsy. I only ever use it if she has urticaria or other reaction so making her a bit sleepy in that instance is a good thing if it stops her gouging holes out of her self.

She was prescribed Ketotifen when she was 16 m/o as she'd had an asthma attack and ventolin makes her WIRED. It did work really well but I'd not recommend drugging children to make them sleep . DD1 was dragging herself along by her hands around the children's ward at 5am as she was too tired to run but too wired to stop. It was making her asthma worse to exert herself so much so the Paed. gave her Ketotifen to calm her down.

She is seen by a cranial osteopath and then she is much better for ages and then goes back when things start to slip again.

Did she have birth trauma or an injury?

DD1 was a ventouse birth and had a bit of a twisted neck. Chiropractic care sorted that out but I stopped taking her after the receptionist claimed they could cure her asthma .

She also fell down the stairs about 8 months ago and smashed her front teeth (lost one) as she landed on her face. Her sleep has been getting progressively worse since then but there's not a direct correlation.

I had a problem with my four year old not going to sleep - he's not quite an insomniac, but he really does fight bedtime.

I was given some advice to encourage full body movement like roliepolies (sorry, no idea how to sepll that), rolling down hills, pushing wheelbarrows, cycling and so on. Apprantly it is deep muscle movement which makes their bodies tired.

And I also followed the advice in this article.

Solving Bedtime Battles. Putting both pieces of advice together has really made an improvement for us and ds is asleep by 8pm every night now. It was a gradual thing but we got there.

Falling on her face will have a huge impact on her and the fact that her sleep has been worsening since then may mean that is part of it. I would recommend a cranial osteopath rather than a chiropracter. Really.

Where abouts are you?

My DD had a really funny shaped head after being laid on her back all the time - totally flat at the back and tall at the top. That had a huge impact on her poor thing.

Dh have insomnia. He is very light sleeper and sleep for short hours.
BPS, dd has slight flat at the side. It worried me to sick. But now she is older got longer hair, its less visible.
Never thought that makes big difference

Perfect shaped head even after the ventouse!

We're in Sussex.