My 2 year old will not go to sleep without A LOT of help and it's driving us nuts. HELP!

[beachtent]

Hopefully the subject says it all - as I type this, our 2 1/4 year old is screaming in his bedroom. We've given up trying to soothe him to sleep, which I know sounds terrible and neglectful, but we just don't know what else to do. He keeps falling asleep then waking up and wanting us to sing and cuddle him but we're both exhausted and fed up. We've run out of ideas. Please help!

To add: he has always resisted sleep and needed a lot of coaxing. Thus far we have been obliging, but it is now getting ridiculous. His bedtime is usually 7.30 / 8 ish, and it's 10pm now. Our relationship suffers, as does our sanity, the cleanliness of the house, everything. We have no evenings at the moment, and through it all I feel like an utterly neglectful and terrible parent.

We had a similar issue with our DD. Eventually the things that made the difference were a set bedtime routine, leaving a hallway light on, walking around upstairs doing 'jobs' and finally going downstairs with a promise to be back in 2 minutes (e.g. to bring up a cup of water). She was awful up to about 2.5, she's now 3y4m and is happy to go to sleep by herself after being tucked in.

Does he have a nap?

have you tried exhausting him during the day?
don`t know what to say, my 3 year old has just started this. I start bed time at 7 and am messing about until bloody 11.

I gave up last night and had her downstairs playing until 11.15 rather than lying in bed wailing.

I work as a live in nanny and whilst my charge 2.5 will go straight down for me without a moan or wimper - whether he has had a 2 hour nap or not - he WILL NOT for his parents.

He will get up, shout, cry, make up ridiculous reasons to talk to them etc.

Are you consistant and actually do a "proper" bedtime ie lie down quietly, lights of kiss and goodnight or do you play raspberries and jump about and then leave the child when he thinks you want to play

When he calls you do you ignore consistantly or do you try for a while before going up and doing things like rocking to sleep, singing, chatting etc>

Well, I just caved in and went in a cuddled him to sleep. Probably not the most helpful thing I could do in the long run, but I just couldn't cope with the crying any longer - it's not like we're trying CC or anything like that, so I wasn't feeling 100% justified in ignoring him.

We definitely have a consistent routine for bed: bath, two stories whilst drinking milk, then bed. There is little variation, and the time is usually the same, unless he's had a late nap (which usually spells disaster) and then we usually put him to bed a bit later.

I've tried cutting out the day time nap, but he just seems to still really need it - without it he is losing it by about 5pm and going utterly nuts by about 6pm. But perhaps I shall reducing the day time sleep? At the moment I just let him sleep for however long he likes, so long as it's not past 4pm. Usually he's finished napping by about 3.30 at the latest though. (He's also a bloody nightmare to get to sleep during the day, and will ONLY sleep in his buggy, so we have to be out, whatever the weather!).

Any more tips or advice? Am I being too harsh with him? Or do I need to be stricter?

i would absolutely reduce the day time nap and if possible move it earlier
4 pm is REALLY late to be waking up
i think it's unreasonable to put a not tired 2 year old in a room by themselves and expect them to stay quiet and happy without you for what must seem like a long time
i think it's absolutely fine to cuddle him and stay with him - don't worry about that
it is very hard to lose your evening, but can you and dp take turns and give each other a break?
don't worry about the cleaning and all that - you won't look back and wish you had spent more time hoovering! but you might look back and wish you'd just gone with what he needs and comforted him

i have 2 pretty crap sleepers so i do sympathise! they are not doing it on purpose to annoy you (i know it IS annoying) - they are only little, and this time when they need us so intensely is soon past, even though it wears us out at the time

Thanks couple. Normally we're in there with him the whole time, but the last couple of nights it's just felt like too much. We will definitely try to move the nap time earlier. I agree - 4pm is way too late! He did seem really tired this evening though so I'm just so surprised it took him so long.

when or how will he learn to fall asleep by himself? If we keep going in to him, will this not stop him from learning? Or does it just happen naturally?

And no, we can't take it in turns, as he just wants me - when my partner goes in, he hits him and goes completely bonkers!

oh gosh so you are doing it all yourself
that is really hard
is there another way he might be able to fall asleep in the evening - you mentioned the buggy during the day - could your partner take him out for a long walk in the evening? my dp is often found pounding the pavements in the evening, he takes music to listen to or a film to watch on his phone sometimes!!

if it absolutely has to be you at bedtime, can you keep him up a bit later, but your partner give you a break earlier, so you get some rest / peace? eg after dinner could he take him out for a walk, or up for a bath, while you relax? then you might not feel so resentful when you have to do the bedtime bit

having been through this once with our eldest does help me and dp, as we know it doesn't last forever
i don't think all young children are ready to learn to fall asleep by themselves - for those who aren't, trying to force it will just make you all miserable and won't do your relationship any favours
if you carry on meeting his needs for now i think you will find it easier later - you will know when he has got a bit less needy and might be able to try and sleep on his own, when he is older
you can do this very gradually and just pop next door to do something, then keep popping in and out of his room so he gradually gets used to having you nearby but not with him at all times
however some children do need their parents nearby while falling asleep for quite a while
this is fine and as long as you can find ways to cope with the demand on your time, doesn't do them any harm or hold them back in any way

making bedtime a battle is never a good idea - you are all tired and it is such a horrid way to end the day
however you need time to yourself - do you get any break at all during the week? could you swop with a friend or pay for some help with childcare?

If you want him to have a daytime sleep then it needs to be over and done with by 3pm at the latest - I find 1.30-3pm works well with my 2 year old although he will also go for a sleep at 12.15-1.15 some days so we can fit in our local activities.

We've had this kind of problem with both of ours. What has worked with dd2 (2.1) in the last few weeks is an audiobook of Monkey Puzzle by Julia Donaldson (a book she likes that is not scary or too exciting or funny). Now she will listen to it and I still have to stay in there with her but she falls asleep within 10-15 mins (used to take much much longer) with less messing about (scratch my arms, hold my hand, stroke my face, pat me, gah!).

Might be worth a try? It's' incredibly wearing I agree, getting no evening, feeling like you might as well just give up on having any time to yourself or with dp, never getting any housework done...

With dd1 (who was less clingy to me), the whole "I'm going to put my pjs on, back in 2 mins", "I'm going to get you a glass of water, back in 2 mins" did work actually.

Also, I started limiting dd2's naps (not something I had ever ever done with dd1), so that she was always awake by 3 and then moved that forward to 2 and then limiting to no more than an hour and a half. She now seems to be dropping the nap but at least that does mean she seems to wake less in the night so it works for us.

I hope you figure it out.

You could try some kind of gradual retreat programme? have a look at the millpond teach your child to sleep book. basically you start by staying with your child until he's asleep then, over a series of nights, work your way out of the room.

some children just don't manage to have a daytime sleep and then go to bed at any reasonable time
3 pm would be a hideously late nap for either of mine - that would probably mean a midnight bedtime
with ds1 he used to be up from his morning sleep about 12.30 and still be up till 9 pm often
ds2 who is not quite 2, no longer has a nap at all most days - when he does he is usually up till 10.30
you just have to work round it sometimes! it won't be for the rest of your life

I agree the Millpond book is great.
You definitely need some sort of plan as he's wailing and crying to get your attention.Nothing worse than listening to your child crying!
He's old enough to understand what you're saying so perhaps a firm approach would be best now?if you keep on going into his room he will keep wailing til you give in.

I had to do the gradual withdrawal thing with my DS when he went from cot to toddler bed (age 2.2). I did the bedtime routine, face, teeth, pyjamas, milk, bedtime story, wrap up his teddies in a muslim (putting them to bed!) and 10 kisses on his forehead (at his request!). Then I switched off the light and sat on a chair next to him in the dark until he was asleep. I gave him no interaction at all. If got out of bed, I put him back in straightaway maybe with a little kiss. I gradually moved the chair further and further towards the door until it was eventually out the door. This took six months. It was incredibly frustrating and tiring, but it paid off. He is now a dream to put to bed at age 4.6. I still have to do the teddies and 10 kisses bit. Boys do love their routines!

BTW, I would drop the sleep back to 1 hour only and no later than 2pm. If he doesn't sleep before then, don't let him have a daytime nap. (I also have a DD who is 2.2 and this is the rule for her, based on my experience of DS1)

Thank you all SO MUCH. So reassuring to know that I'm not alone and that there are ways through this tough patch. I'm studying as well which I think is why I feel so stretched. But as you have said, it won't last forever. I do love my little boy so much, and totally empathise with him as I was (and am) a terrible sleeper myself. I just hope my own anxieties about sleep aren't rubbing off on him. Doesn't help that my partner and I have very different opinions about how to deal with this!

So, for now it's an hour's nap and no sleeping after 2.30pm with a view to moving that to 2pm within a week or two.

And some audiobooks - what a fab idea!

Just to say... i think things are improving a little. We have audiobooks which he's not fussed about, but nursery rhymes on CD which relieve us of the neverending demands to 'sing!' which is bliss. But he still takes about an hour to soothe to sleep. This is despite us reducing his nap to 45mins/1 hour tops and no sleep after 3pm. Ah well. He seems to drift off and get really really sleepy, only to start twitching, which then wakes him up. He seems to want to rouse himself rather than sleep! Strange. Anyway, thanks for all the advice!