DS nearly 2 - still going in to him x times per night and he never goes to sleep without a fight. What do we do?!

[bintofbohemia]

He'll be 2 in August. We co-slept from birth until about 9 months when I hit the end of my tether due to severe sleep deprivation. (As in, he didn't, never for longer than 2 hours.)

He never ever just goes to sleep. He had a patch from about 9-12 months where he would go 7pm-6am on the whole, but then stopped. He generally has a nap at lunchtimes but I just leave him in the pushchair now as it was just too difficult to get him to sleep in his cot.

At night, we put him down, and he spends 1-2 hours sitting up and crying until you go in and put him down. He wakes and cries usually for an hour in the night at some point, and last night he was on and off for hours and in and out of our bed through desperation as we didn't want him waking up DS1.

We have a night time routine, I really don't know what we can change. We've tried leaving him for long times between going in but he will literally just go on for hours.

I don't know what to do. It's hideous being woken up every night (and still, at this stage!) and I feel like we must have done something horrible wrong to still be in this situation.

Can anyoen offer any advice please? Or nice happy stories about similar children who suddenly started sleeping brilliantly?

dd didn't stop this until she was 3, sorry. you have my sympathy, i remember waking up so suddenly my nose bled.

Oh crapsticks. (That soudns traumatic!) Did you keep going in every time or did you just leave her in the hope she might stop it? We're currently muddling between the two approaches and it aint working!

I feel so sorry for you but it will improve. My dd was such a bad sleeper and didnt even manage a half decent night until she was 4.5. But although she is still a rubbish sleeper she sorts herself out - reads till goes to sleep, if she falls out of bed through tossing and turning she picks herself up and resettles, gets up and paces around a bit etc etc. But we dont get involved!!! She is 8.

Maybe get rid of daytime sleep or reduce it to 15 mins or something (although for some children they sleep worse without daytime nap!). All three of my dds cut out nap between 1 and 2.

Possibly try a later bed time and exhaust him before hand (you can always creep it forward once he associates bed with sleep). Combine it with a new routine where you dont respond to the crying apart from checking he is not hurt.

I can remember waiting for a week of annual leave then accepting a week of hell where we took dd back to bed each time she woke and just gritted our teeth through the crying. The other girls had to just accept it and they slept in day to make up for it.

Having had three non sleepers, I now get full nights sleep. It does happen and I dont think it is down to you (us) doing anything wrong. My dds are an example of some people just being poor light sleepers. They still all wonder around and sleep badly now but are old enough to generally get on with it.

Maybe he doesn't need a nap anymore. DD stopped daytime naps at about 18 months.

Maybe he should go to bed a bit later.

Otherwise, I don't know what to say without knowing the specifics. Maybe watch a few episodes if Supernanny?

frogety - thank you for your post. I've been wondering about ditching the daytime sleep, although I haven't really wanted to do this because I live for my hour off! And also he does nod off sometimes in the car jsut before midday so he seems to be tired still. But at this stage I'd try anything to not have to deal with this up and down business every single night. It's shit and it's making me very pissed off and grumpy all the time.

Good to hear that it stops eventually...

x-posts Cote. Thanks, yes, will experiment with binning the nap tomorrow and see what happens.

It does stop and its normal to feel pissed off and grumpy so do not feel guilty.

I spent years feeling like a bad parent cause my babies, then children, didnt sleep!!! Now I feel like an excellent parent cause I coped!!!

It will suddenly end and you will feel great. But worth trying a few things first.

It's just so rubbish as I have lower reserves in the day and I feel like am doing everything halfheartedly which is a bit crap really isn't it. I'm half present in the day and half wishing I was asleep...

I totally understand. I used to be so tired I would see double at times. Make sure you go to bed as soon as ds is asleep. Make your sleep a priority and grab every minute you can.

Baby lavender bath soak may help if he is tired and bed time is later.

Presume you have tried the norm - black out blinds, bath/book/bed routine with nothing else and all done near bedroom and quietly, lots of fresh air and exercise early evening, etc.

It may be bizarre but you could consider a bed for him in your room for a while and make sure he understands its for him to sleep in - all night!!!. I do think some children find it hard to be away from parents all night and we did this for a while.

We have black out blinds and have a fairly consistent routine (although it can be quite hard to stop them running around like maniacs just before bed!) but maybe we need to be even more rigid so he gets the message.

It's just rubbish because it's starting to make me quite anxious and agitated when I get woken up in the night and then I struggle to get back to sleep. (And the minute I do he starts again...)

Thanks frogety. you've made me feel a bit happier.

Her's been screaming for an hour and a half tonight now. We've been going in periodically but nothing helps. Don't like to leave him screaming but going in sometimes seems to makes it worse when you come out.

Buggered either way.

DS1 has always been a bit if a screamer with every nap - we just leave him too it - always have done really. It sounds really cruel but he doesn't do it for long - the more we go in the more it winds him up!

If you know he's safe, not ill etc perhaps let him have a wail - as you say you've tried everything else. He may give up when he realises he's not getting your attention.

I'm not a heartless mummy by the way (hate controlled crying etc)....you know your child and at this age i think they work out how to play you a bit..

DS was also similar, except he always went to sleep at bedtime without any bother - but he would wake frequently throughout the night and "need" me and not settle, sometimes for several hours, so I know completely how you feel. I too could not leave him as his will was stronger than mine, and he would cry for ages and ages. I tried all sorts of things and I am not going to lie and say that any one of them really worked. And around 24 months was the absolute height of the problem, it was awful. But gradually the situation started improving - for some reason 2 weeks of all sharing a big bed together on holiday about 2 months after he turned 2 seemed to be a turning point. He is now 3.5 and although he still wakes sometimes, it is brief. Turning 3 saw a real change - he understood when I said it was making Mummy v tired, and we introduced treats in the morning/reward charts, which we are still using. It is not perfect, but SO much better.

Have you tried the gradual retreat method - I was embarking on that when things started improving by themselves, from the Millpond sleep book.

Hello again. Well, to update, I have deprived the poor little fella of sleep all day and he looks ragged. Am going to put him in a warm lavender bath (and then go on a girl's night out and leave DH to it! ) If he doesn't sleep tonight There's no hope...

Hope you have a great night out [jealous] and the little man sleeps well. He must be shattered, bless him

Morning! Thank you littlemiss. I have a hideous hangover but glad I went out, because DH said it was awful, he screamed for 2 hours from 7-9pm. So he was awake for 14 hours and up again at 5pm.

Why doesn't he like to sleep for god's sake, what's not to like? Obvioulsy the deprivation in the day is not the answer...

How long does he nap for? Could he be overtired?

I got a gro-clock for DS and seems to be helping with the early starts...

FWIW - knackering my kids out in the day never makes them sleep better at night.

Hope the hangover clears....

He might like the clock - DS is fascinated by the stars and moon at bedtime and lies there staring at it

Oooh, I like that clock - do you think he's old enough to get his head around the idea?

Cranial osteopathy - I don't know much about it to be honest, tell me more... I'd try dancing around him naked on a full moon waving seaweed and chanting if I thought it would make the slightest difference.

Clock says its from 2yrs so worth a try....

(It actually is a full moon tonight isn't it? Spooky - perhaps I should try. He's been shouting for an hour so far tonight.)

have you tried putting him to bed earlier, even if it seems ridiculously early? Might be an idea, especially if he's not having a nap. I always feel with DS who's 2.3 and has an afternoonn nap still that sleep begets sleep. If he gets tired he sleeps worse and wakes up earlier. Gets hysterical at bedtime when over tired as well.
Maybe try putting him down quite a bit earlier than usual, see if it helps?

Tis worth a go - if I put him down at 5pm he might actually go to sleep for 7pm.

God it's annoying.

Nothing helpful to add - just to let you know you are not the only one. We have given in at the moment due to broken spirit and sleep deprivation.

Ds is 25mths and currently is sleeping with either me or dp and not going to bed until quite late (8-10pm). This is not how we thought we would do things and I can't believe he is getting enough sleep (although he does have a nap as well).

Since we have started doing this, things have improved massively. Ds is no longer overwraught and neither are we. We all seem to like life and each other much more.

I know this can't go on forever but for now life is bearable again!