does this sound normal for a 12 week old?

[cantthinkofagoodname]

I have a 12 week old DD who is just getting over dreadful "colic" caused, it seems, by cows milk protein intolerance. She was reacting badly to dairy proteins in my breastmilk. I'm dairy free now and she's going from strength to strength. DD is massive (91st percentile) and is physically healthy except for the allergy, which she is seeing the paed for.

This morning I saw the HV and she asked me how sleep was going. My DD usually needs to feed to sleep at night (which I don't have a problem with) and wakes every 2-3 hours for a feed (which is lovely after weeks of waking every 45 mins screaming!) The HV looked concerned and said she should be going longer than that (at least 4-5 hrs), and that my DD was only doing it out ofr habit and I should only feed her every 4hrs at night and let her cry until then. Also I should put her down awake and let her cry to sleep. She said I should take charge and "be a parent".

I feel a bit uncomfortable now as I thought we were doing well, any thoughts?

Ignore the woman. Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job and have a thriving dd.

I think you are doing fine.

Your DD is used to eating often at night and so she is showing progress by going those 2-3 hour stretches.

It is up to you, not your HV, how you want to put your DD to sleep. I always try quite hard to put my children down awake so that they get used to it, but it is up to you. They don't generally cry to sleep though - they are quiet and happy!

If you want your DD to go longer between feeds she will probably cry because you will be denying her something she wants, which is fine if you are confident in how she is doing and you want her to learn to go longer right away. But if you are happy with how things are it is none of the HV's business IMO.

Wow did she really put it like that? Maybe she was (badly) trying to give you confidence, I remember my mum saying something like you're the parent, you show them what you want them to do' and I cried buckets having immediately assumed she was saying I was a bad parent!

Anyway you're doing brilliantly - a BF CMP intolerant baby on the 91st centile is fab. Don't let a 12 week old cry itself to sleep it is very mean and will just make her scared of going to sleep. Nearly all 12 w o feed to sleep don't they? Mine went about 4 hr in the night at that age but I know plenty of others that went 2-3 hours, likely by 6 months she'll be doing a nice 5 hour stretch if you keep responding to her needs beautifully as you are at the moment. Next time you see HV just lie and say she's sleeping through, I lied loads about my babies' sleep because the unhelpful comments irritated me.

You're doing great. Mine did the same thing at that age, and I never did any 'teaching to sleep' and she's always made her own adjustments when she's needed to. At 18 months she asks for her stuffed toy, says 'buh bye' and goes to sleep. i didn't do that; she did.

Keep going. You're doing a fabulous job.

I think your HV is talking out of her arse..... I suspect there are a lot of 12 week olds that do 4-5 hour stretches but they have progressed to that from maybe 2-3 hourly. Your dd has stretched from 45 mins to 2-3 hours so there is progress there. Try not to worry. They all tend to get there in the end

FWIW, my DS sounds very similar to your DD. He would wake screaming every 45 mins and fed constantly day and night. He too progressed to 2-3 hourly and now, at 6 months, he goes down at 7 pm (awake), feeds at 2 ish and then goes through until 7 am. I'm sure my HV would say he should be ready to drop that night feed (bearing in mind he eats 3 solid meals per day plus loads of milk) but I am happy with his progress so that's all that matters really imho.

Yes, she put it like I needed to step up to thr mark and get harsh. The thing is after weeks of rotten sleep (poor little thing was in pain) I really don't know what's "normal" regarding sleep (we've had a horrid time) and she panicked me a bit.

HV is right - you are the parent who's in charge. So do what YOU think is right, not HV. My 5mo wakes btw 2 and 6 times a night, but otherwise is a happy ds, so I'm not worried and will keep feeding him waiting for him to grow out of it.

My 20 week-old wakes every 2 hours or less to feed/resettle and she's fine. Tough on my sleep, but that's just the way she is. Baby sleep and feeding patterns vary enormously, don't worry about it. Sounds like you and your LO are doing great!

I agree with the comments above. Every 2-3 hours is fine - and you're seeing progress, which is great. You can't over-feed a bf baby, and the World Health Organisation advises you to feed 'frequently and on-demand' until the baby is two (years). The NHS's advice is based on the WHO guidelines, so your HV's advice to try to space out night feeds contradicts the 'official' position. If your DD is waking up wanting a feed, I'd just go ahead and feed her.

Feeding to sleep is totally normal. At 12 weeks my DS had to be fed into a deep sleep before he'd settle. He then improved so that I could feed him, and put him down awake.

Most sleep books (of which I've read at least 8 ) advise waiting till at least 6 months before doing sleep training which involves leaving babies to cry.

Some babies do 'cry' to sleep - they seem to need to grizzle/cry in order to release tension and relax into sleep. You'll probably know if yours is one of those as they will often fuss/cry when feeding/being rocked to sleep. Other babies increase tension by crying, and leaving them to cry is likely to be far harder work. See here for more on this.

You sound like you're doing a grand job; keep it up and don't let yourself be bullied by anyone else.

DS1 was dairy protein intolerant. I'd have been thrilled with 2-3 hours, it would have seemed like heaven compared to the 20 minutes we had! Luckily once we'd twigged, he then did suddenly start doing 12 hours at a stretch at around 12 weeks, but that only lasted a month, and then he settled to about 4 hours.

He was/is only on about the 0.4th centile still at nearly 5 and having grown out of his intolerance. How did you do so well to get her to 91st with dairy intolerance

I gave up listening to HV, as she didn't know the difference between protein and lactose, so it all seemed a bit pointless asking for her advice, especially after I was told to top up his food with double cream once I started weaning

What an awful thing to say- you've obviously been doing a fantastic job so far.

You can request another HV if needs be (I did) or just ignore her.

I found the webchat on Tuesday by a sleep expert (Dr Helen Ball I think it was) was very reassuring. She explained the benefits of co-sleeping and why research is showing that leaving babies to 'cry it out' is leading to health problems later in life.

Smile sweetly at HV, nod thoughtfully, and then carry on with what works for you. You're doing great!

"How did you do so well to get her to 91st with dairy intolerance"

its just that she was really massive when she was born - 98th centile - then she dropped weight very quickly (lost nearly a pound in the first 5 days), then settled on 75th centile for a while.
She really is a very long baby though. Since my giving up the dairy she's absolutely piled on the lard and gone up to 91st - I suspect she will eventually get back to 98th, which is where I think she should have been all along (fits in with her length IYSWIM).

THanks so much to everyone for these reassuring posts - its hard when a HCP makes you question yourself as they are supposed to be the "experts".