naps (or lack therof) for a 15week old

[Thandeka]

I have the ultimate insomniac daughter. She has been awake since 6am. Tried to put her down for a nap at 8am (as trying to make sure she has another nap within 2 hours of waking for the day- the last three days it worked but only if I strapped her into her carseat for that nap!) By 11 (! yes 3hours later!) we gave up on trying to get her to nap and DH took her out in the pram. He has been walking with her in pram for two hours. She has only slept for 30mins!

So that is thirty mins sleep in last 7hours when really she probably should have had at least a couple of hours. She gets way way less sleep than what the "experts" say an almost 4 month old needs and has been a pain for naps pretty much since we left hospital at 8days old. (Only way to get her to nap in is usually pram or car-but lately even that has stopped working!)

She was awake between 11pm and 3am this morning too, she must be completely shattered (I bloody am!).

She is breastfed- I don't drink any caffeine now - although it blimming might help me stay awake (and may have to give up choc too!)

What on earth can I do to help her (and me) sleep and get proper naps and sleep at night?
Gah!

oh and she point blank refuses to take a dummy, so sometimes she is so exhausted she falls asleep during a feed. If I latch her off she will sleep on her breastfeeding pillow but then I am unable to move as if I try and shift her into her cot/hammock/bouncer she wakes up.

I really wish I could find a dummy she would take as sometimes she will fall asleep with my little finger in her mouth but then you end up attached to her!

No great advice I'm afraid but much rich tea and sympathy (decaff) as my 10 wk old is much the same and always has been. I can't imagine how he will ever have the text book hours. Or frankly how any baby does - was just thinking about it this
morning as I walked my LO in a sling (only way he'll sleep- like yours the effect of the buggy has worn off.. Boo). To get 16 - 18 hours, my DS would have to sleep through night and nap for four plus hours a day. Cue hollow exhausted laughter. Let us know if you find the magic formula, so to speak. And good luck!

Today I worked out we spent SEVEN HOURS trying to get her to sleep since 6am including 3 hours in the pram and 1 hour in the car (I had to go out anyway) and she has slept for a grand total of ONE HOUR! Seriously I think she has a secret cot cocaine habit or something!

Have decided to give up and embrace my insomniac daughter!

Lets just hope they grow out of it suchanamateur!

Did she / does she have colic? That sounds like classic colicky baby to me.

Have you tried a sling? It often works for the most nap-resisting babies. I got to the point where neither pram nor car worked for DS, but the sling usually did. We had 5 weeks or so when he would only sleep in the sling, but now he is much better and I can rock him to sleep and then put him in his cot.

I wonder whether, despite doing the 2 hour thing, you're still trying to put her down too late? At that age, DS could only go about an hour and a half before needing a nap. I think the theory is that they need to be asleep again within 2 hours of waking up - not starting the process of getting ready to sleep within 2 hours.

One of the sleep books (Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child) recommends putting post-colic babies down for the first nap after only 1 hour of wakefulness. In theory, the first nap of the day should be the easiest to fall asleep, as they are better rested after the night. The more overtired they become, the harder they find it to sleep - as you've found!

Sleeping for only 30 mins at a time is totally normal, although very annoying. May babies 'grow into' longer naps as they get older.

Could you try feeding her lying down somewhere safe so that if she does drop off, she can carry on napping? When DS started to feed to sleep (he had a couple of months where it didn't work), I would feed him for food as soon as he woke up and then feed him again for comfort when he seemed tired, or if he'd been awake about 1.5 hours. That would usually send him off, and offering him a feed was a good test of whether he was tired or not - if he wasn't tired, he wouldn't be interested (because he was full from the previous feed but didn't feel in need of the comfort sucking). He didn't take a dummy either.

Hope things improve for you soon.

Have you got a sling? I have a kari me wrap sling and it's v comfortable... I really sympathise as dd1 was like this and it's a killer, I pretty much gave up on naps in the house and used the sling or rocked her in the pushchair in the garden, altho it was not always guaranteed to work... I also co slept at night, and still do during tough nights with dd2.

I know it's not a comfort now but what I will say is that this stage does not last for ever, you cannot spoil a baby and if you have to hold her while she sleeps or co sleep at night you will do her no harm but will be meeting her needs and helping her develop into a secure little girl

Nope to the colic- weirdly she has seemed perfectly happy for most of the day, and (I have had more sleep than her today- and I am grumpy so don't know what is going on with her!) She was grumpy in the morning hence trying to put her to sleep (I do try and catch the first yawn but she is sooo alert and uber awake it is hard to catch her being tired and I must miss the window of opportunity alot!).

Yup we have a close baby carrier and a couple of pouch slings but in this heat we both would melt and she often really screams when she goes in it.

Ah well she went to sleep at 7.30 this evening without fighting it so maybe that's just the way she is!

(Wish there was a baby sleeping pill though! -a non side effect magic one though obviously!)

and p.s. A friends mum says not sleeping in day is a sign of gifted and talented! Even if it's not true- makes me feel better!

Uh oh Thandeka. I think we're going to have a day today like you had yesterday (even with using the sling...arghhh). Coupled with the screaming match that is our feeds, I'm reduced to tears... I must be doing something wrong.

Nope defo you are not doing anything wrong, tis our contrary munchkins! Can you lie down to feed (are you bfeeding?) can you hand LO to someone else? I have given DD to DH several times today as she is doing my head in! Finally napped on her breastfeeding pillow meaning I was marooned on sofa til she woke as previous experience knows moving her wakes her up. Shall we give them away with the recycling?

Or put them on eBay? Hardly used, peak condition, lively... DS has just woken fifteen minutes into an hour car journey that I was banking on... Wishing you a better afternoon and night than this augurs for us!

And yes, am bfing. Although not sure for how much longer. He screams his head off five mins into each feed, and then just pops on and off, on and off. Doesn't do that with a bottle If I can calm him down, lying down is one of the few ways he will feed for longer. Not very practical or sociable thouugh..

Ah my friend had same prob, turns out her let down is too fast so bub was getting overwhelmed by the milk, have you had a bfeeding counsellor observe a feed? There are various strategies you can adopt if it is fast let down such as feeding leaning back or sitting baby up facing you, and also using a muslin to soak up the initial fast letdown til the flow slows? That's if it is fast letdown of course. Bfeeding is hard innit!

That seems to be what the bf counsellour said (althogh others have thought slow let down and wind....). I think that might be why feeding lying down helps. But it may just be that he is a difficult little b***r- currently smiling andcooing away despite his lack of sleep! Good thing he's jolly sweet. Through the yawns.. Hope you are racking up more sleep despite the heat.

nope- we are on two 20 min naps so far today! and ONLY on the boob which has meant I have been stuck on sofa as she naps as if I try and move her she wakes up! At least it was a much better night last night- 7.30 to 7.30 with a feed at 10.30 (first sucessful dreamfeed) 2am and 6am, which is technically only one nightfeed- so bearable- there was a point she was getting 7-9hours straight in a night- not anymore though! Prob 4month sleep regression!

Last night- tried lavender oil in her bath and near her cot last night- probably coincidence for the improved sleep but hey ho! Could have done with out the neighbours having a big fight and breaking a window and the police being called at 3am though! Madam slept through it at least.

Why oh why won't you sleep little ones!?

Am envious of your nights. We usually get a 7.30-10.30 ish stretch. Then maybe till 2 (if we're lucky), but then after that it's pretty much hourly. last night predictably chaotic with lack of naps and heat. And slightly dreading today as I suspect heat means my usual sling failsafe is out of the question.

i have had to give up on sling too- wore it for 20mins yday and both of us were melting! also had to give up on my carseat nap failsafe as she gets too hot. am resorting to taking her out in her pram at 8.30 this am as we have been up since 6am and have baby massage at 9.30 and last week typically she fell asleep on way to it (the one time i actually dont want her to sleep!) and was uber cranky during the class as I had to wake her up!
Bet she wont sleep this am just to be contrary as usual.

I think at mo i am getting more sleep than her as DH takes her so i can nap! That is just wrong!

oops posted before i had finished> Hope your nights (and days) are a bit better this week.

Hi there, another mum of a 15 week non-napper here!

Is deciding not to bother about it an option? (or, a good option, rather than a slack mum option?!)

Since DD has over the last few weeks got a lot better at going to bed (she used to scream for about an hour or two every evening, and that was even after the colic stage wore off, now mostly she is quite calm and drifts off without too much bother), I'm a bit take it or leave it with the naps. And now she's a bit more interested in the world I can at least plonk her in the baby gym for a while, or even on a mat, and she seems to amuse herself which gives me a bit of time to get on with things. I figure night sleeping and BF give me plenty enough to worry about without stressing about napping too. But, hey, I might be very wrong.

That said, last night she was trying to roll over most of the night and neither of us slept more than 2-3 hours (DH wisely retreated to the spare room), so who knows what horrors today holds?

welcome comeonbishbosh!

Yeah think I have come to that conclusion too- it isn't very energy efficient spending 7hours trying to get a child to nap for 1 hour is it!?
Madam can now sleep (or not!) wherever, whenever she likes- currently snoozing on her bfeeding pillow on the boob as i type this- which i don't mind too much as is saving me tramping the streets with her in this heat!

comeonbishbosh - that is pretty much what I did with my now 10m DD. She has always been crap at daytime sleeping (I started a thread on this a couple of days ago), but luckily much better at night. She could sometimes stay awake pretty much all day and would sometimes sleep in pushcahir if out and about but often not!

I just tried not to stress about it and left her to play if she seemed happy enough, or she would sometimes sleep on my lap while I was on Mumsnet! I think some babies just need less sleep? Who knows? . Your LOs are certainly not the only ones, even though it probably feels that everyone else has good nappers. I think maybe that they can grow out of the wakefulness, as DD will now sometimes sleep in the cot during the day (although she's not been good in this heat)

Good to hear of others out there, and from you Species- almost out the other side. While it's this hot, I may follow you on the path of least resistance although I know what he'll I store up for myself at bedtime! And unfortunately my nights aren't up to much. I've always been a rubbish daytime sleeper so perhaps it's all genetic...

Yes, am hoping that now she's more active DD will be happier to nap. Seems to be going that way slowly anyhow (fingers crossed!, but some bad days lately.

Hang on in there! I got used to the situation and kind of gave up on the whole thing until very recently. The miles I must have walked with the pram/pushchair!

I'm sure its been mentioned before - but maybe try putting her down a bit earlier - my 11wk old seems to need to go back to bed about 45mins after her morning wake up (longer than that later in the day) but if we miss that window of opportunity its really hard to settle her. My other daughters were the same.