Sleeping/Routine Issues

[dizzyem]

My DD2 (6mo) started sleeping through at 10 weeks similar to my DD1 only DD2 stopped sleeping through at about 20 weeks and persists in waking 1 or 2 times per night. I stick to the same routine each night although I do generally feed her to sleep at night bt she is usually in bed by 7.45pm. For the past few nights she is not happy to go to sleep before 9pm. She usually wakes inthe night about 4am and is rooting for a feed if I pick her up. The music box that we used with DD1 does not seem to settle DD2 she mooches round her cot wanting to play! She does go back to sleep afetr the 4am feed unitl about 7am. She is not yet in a strict routine in the day as I am finding it hard to do so with having to go in and out to drop off/pick up DD1 from playgroup. I don't think she is getting enough sleep in the day - too interested in watching her sister or having her sleep disturbed by having to collect DD1! I've tried putting her down awake in her cot but she screams and screams. She will only go to sleep in the day if she is in the car, pram, after feeding or being rocked for ages. If she does fall asleep in the car/pram then she can sleep for up to 3 hours but on average she has about 1 hour sleep a day - I don't think this is enough despit being told that I or DH never slept in the day from 6 weeks of age - this doe snot help! I go back to work in 2 months and I need to feel confident in myself that she is established in a routine without a) me having to feed her to sleep or b) her having to be in a car or pram. She doesn't take a bottle so I can't not feed her. She has started on solids but this has not improved the sleeping situation. DD2 never seems to have restful sleep in my opinion, always appears to be in a light sleep. We did not have any of these issues with DD1 apart from a week of non sleeping at about 9 months. DD2 makes me feel like a useless mum who knows nothing - Any ideas? Sorry post is so long....:-(

Forgot to say she also fights her sleep -

We have been having exactly the same with DS2 since he was 6m old (he is now 8m). Having been a great sleeper from about 10 weeks the wheels came off at 6m and we've never quite got back on track. I've posted about it and have found out that it's quite common for babies to do this at this time: they have a HUGE developmental spurt and with everything whizzing around in their brains they just can't sleep and can get horribly disrupted. Like you, I was worried and felt useless as DS1 was never like this, but I've been told by wise mumsnetters that a lot of the time it simply passes and they grow out of it sometime between 9 and 12 months old. If you can stick with it until then I guess just go with the flow: that's what I'm trying to do anyway. Having said that, I'm also due back at work soon and if broken nights are continuing I might try gradually reducing the amount of milk offered until he stops asking for it (far easier and more gentle than CC or leaving them to cry, I think!).

Not sure if that helps but sending lots of support from one who is in the same boat!

Thanks fabulosa for the wise words :-) I'll aim to stick things out....

Sounds as if lack of daytime sleep could be the issue, meaning that she's overtired by bedtime and so can't get to sleep easily. Most babies this age can't stay awake for that long without a sleep.

If you can find the times at which she goes to sleep most easily, then it will be much easier to teach her how to sleep without being fed or in the car/pram. Try watching for sleepy signs if she shows them; if not, you'll need to follow the clock and then start trying to soothe her to sleep.

Somewhere between 6 and 18 months many babies fit a 2-3-4 pattern: first nap after 2 hours awake, second nap after 3 hours awake, bedtime after 4 hours awake. Your DD may not fit this, but it would be a good place to start. (By comparison, my 5 m.o. DS has roughly a 2-2-2.5 pattern.)

Will she be in nursery when you go back to work? I know nursery staff are used to having to rock babies to sleep if necessary so I wouldn't worry too much if she can't go to sleep on her own by then.

Waking 1 or 2 times a night at this age is supposed to be well within the normal range. Personally, I'm a bit of the 10 weeks of sleeping through!

There are big developmental spurts at 4 and 8/9 months: see here

Angeldog - thanks for this - during this last week I have made a more concerted effort to try and get her to sleep more in the day as some days she was only having 30mins and was so frustrated with herself by the end of the day. She would have a 30 - 45 min nap in the morning (about 2 hrs after waking) and then I would also aim to get her to sleep after lunch and on the successful days she slept for about 2 hours which was lovely as she was a more contented baby all round. I think the problem has been getting her to sleep long enough without having to move her to go and get DD1. On the days where DD2 had a good amount of sleep she went to bed a little later than normal but slept through :-)which was great!
I need to try and keep up the sleep in the afternoon if I can - I think it will be easier in the summer when DH is off work and can occupy DD1 as well as DD2 loves to watch DD1 all day!
What do other mums do I find myself wondering as I do get fed up pf hearing that DD2 just has to fit in.....

When I go back to work, she will be with my mum (previously worked as a nursery nurse) for 2.5 days and nursery for 1.5 days. There will only be one afternoon at nursery where she will need to sleep as I'm hoping my mum will be able to get her to sleep as DD1 will be at school then :-)

Yes deff day time sleep patterns effect night time sleep and I have found a sleepless day causes so many problems.

Twice I have used the Gina Ford routine which works a treat. Both my boys slept well from 16 weeks.

7am up, 9ish short nap- dont let them stay too long. 11am solids 12-2 sleep, 2pm milk, 4pm short nap again 5pm solids, evening milk bed at 7pm.

This works an absolute treat and many of my friends have successfully done it. From experience lunch time sleep is so important and if it means arranging your day around those 2hrs then thats how it is.

We have some success now in that DD2 is sleeping through for 5/7 nights on average and I am being very firm and putting her down for 2 naps in the day where she can sleep up to 2 hrs for each nap which is great as she is alot less crotchety and we ar beginning to see that she does actually like to laugh at things! Controlled crying was hard especially on the first night but after 3 nights it was much better and she now averages 10 minutes to settle herself to sleep. The only time she doesn't sleep is if DD1 is around as DD2 doesn't want to miss out but I can live with that if I know she will catch up later in the day. So thanks to all for your advice, sleep is getting there and routine is too - yay

bacon. You dare to mention Gina Ford on Mumsnet?! lol! I am just kidding by the way.

I have found it hard with ds2 and ds1 and their routines. for example, ds2 now sleeps from 10:00 until 1:00pm and then goes to bed at 7pm. But DS1 needs to be picked up from nursery at 11:30.

What I've done is asked their nanny to do nursery pick up 3 days a week and my neighbour pops in for me 2 days a week while I dash out to pick up ds1.

It's not easy though. And I'm lucky to have some help!

Good job i don't have a third to plan for as well. Wish someone would schedule naps for me

oh me too bippy - a nap in the day would be just excellent!