put them down awake but sleepy?

[StealthPolarBear]

How does that work? if i do this with dd she screams & tantrums & in the process wakes herserlf up fully so she's no longer sleepy. For her then to go to sleep would effectivel;y mean crying herself to sleep.

I guess it's one of those things that only works if your baby's read the book

Would not have worked for DS either.

but it seems to be accepted wisdom, not in the realms of cc or easy
maybe if they're used to it from an earlier age?
i am crap at this

me too stealth.

ds feeds himself to sleep - to cut him short on a BF isn't right, so when should I put him down? aaaaargh

yes, it's only been recently that DD has been finishing a feed rather than feeding to sleep, so you're right it does make it even more tricky

I don't know, I always saw it as a routine type thing, I have always just fed DS to sleep or occasionally been able to just lie down next to him. It only takes 20 minutes or so, 5 minutes on a good night.

My ds's both threw massive tantrums when I put them down awake.
I then started putting them down, leaving room, going in a few minutes later, rocking them until they calmed and put them back, leave room and repeat as needed.
Only took 3 nights for both of them and now they are fine.
(ds2 is 15 months now though)

Oh I am crap at it too. I read all these things about comforting, patting, leaving, retreating, whatever, but DS wants one thing and one thing only and even with all the patting and comforting in the world any method other than breastfeeding him will result in him crying himself to sleep. Which I don't want to do!

Awake but sleepy=awake and screeching and no longer sleepy!

I found that with DS2 if you put him down when he first appears tired, rather than sleepy there is more chance he will self settle. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't! He gets overtired very quickly, so I were to cuddle him till nearly asleep then put him down, he would protest (obviously - wouldn't you?!) and then be awake again and getting more and more overtired, and then only the boob will suffice!

Tis one of those things that will seem inconsequencial (sp?) in a few months time...

It worked for us, but we did it from day one (on the advice of my SIL) and it only worked for DD.

We were smug until DS came along and had to be sung/patted/walked to sleep.

It is nothing you are doing wrong.

Actually I have just remembered, I did the pantley pull off with DS to get him to be less dependent on feeding to sleep, and after that he would feed but then roll over just before he fell asleep. So he was awake, sleepy, not feeding.

He still feeds initially to get to sleep though.

DD1 always fed to sleep, from day one up until she was about 2 I think. Nothing else worked for her, she was a terrible sleeper and I just went with the flow to get an easier ride. DD2 is nearly 11 weeks and so far sometimes I can feed her or change nappy then stick her in basket/bouncy chair and she sucks her thumb til she falls asleep. Am expecting it to change as she grows but atm it's a welcome change. Therefore have come to the conclusion that it depends on the baby and there's not much you can do to change that!

It depends on the baby - honestly!

I was convinced I had 'broken' DD1 as she fought sleep (still does) and was hysterical if placed in her cot unless she was completely asleep. There was no way of getting her to go to sleep by herself and I drove myself crazy over the first year trying everything the books suggested and getting nowhere.

'Funnily' enough, lots of my mummy friends perpetuated the myth that her bad sleeping habits were my fault when I was pregnant with DD2, saying that they were sure it would be easier this time around as I would be 'tougher' and 'wouldn't make the same mistakes' (ie not cuddle newborn or feed to sleep) - turns out I did - and DD2 is a wonderful sleeper in spite of my 'mistakes'.

my DD laughs in the face of "put down awake but sleepy" - I tried it early on, like the beastly books say, but she'd just lie in the moses basket yawning, squawking and staring at me in a WTF sort of way before crying hysterically. so much for that ...
it's rocking chair and hairdryer all the way here now

I used to try this with DS when he was ittle, but he would just cry. However, I did manage to make some progress so now I feed him (or rock him) to drowsiness and then put him down sleepy but awake.

You could have a look at the No Cry Sleep Solution & the No Cry Nap Solution. The Pantly Pull Off which Bertie mentions is intended to teach baby to drop off without the nipple in their mouth. She suggests taking them off the breast when they slow to comfort sucking after finishing the 'active drinking' stage of it. You can keep re-latching them if they're not happy about it.

I used my own version of this to get DS to feed virtually to sleep but finish the last little bit of falling asleep in my arms. Then I progressed to the same, but put him in the cot still in my arms until he was properly asleep. Then I started removing one arm from underneath him before he quite went off. Then the other arm. Then I was eventually able to put him down sleepy but not asleep. He would often need to be patted/shushed/stroked in the cot to resettle him, but that was fine. Each stage took several days, maybe longer.

The NCNS has a suggestion called the Pantley Dance of how to transfer a baby from your arms to the cot (without having to wait till they're in a deep sleep).

Elizabeth Pantley suggests that when you put the very sleepy baby down, you touch/stroke/whatever them in a soothing way (this is like the Baby Whisperer's shush pat). She suggests trying music / a certain phrase / a certain touch (eg pat/stroke), and saying/doing it to baby when they are already drowsy - ie when they feeding and sleepy, in your case. Over time they'll associate these sounds / touches with relaxed sleepiness so you can use them to soothe them when you put them into the cot. The sounds can also help the transition between your arms and the cot.

I feed DS 'for food' when he wakes up (and any other time I think he's hungry) and feed him 'for comfort' to get him to sleep. Then I don't need to worry too much if I accidentally take him off the breast a bit too soon.

HTH