EARLY WAKING (ROLLING AROUND)

[Strong]

This is my first time on mumsnet and I'm hoping to find some answers to my sleep deprivation! Have dd who is nearly 8 months old and have followed GF since 2 weeks old - everything going well except that she is now waking up between 4am and 5.30am every morning (been happening for about 2 months). She doesn't usually cry - she just seems ready to play. We have been going in and giving her toys to play with and tucking her back under sheet (sometimes she goes back to sleep but not often).

I think the reason she is waking is she seems to roll around a lot in her sleep and is near to crawling - she seems to shuffle her way up the cot and wakes when her head reaches the top - she then finds herself face down and headbutting top of cot and can't work out what to do - so wakes up properly and starts making noises - running hands along cot bars, kicking feet, etc.

Should we go into her to give her toys or are the toys distracting her so she doesn't go back to sleep?
Should we go in and just try and tuck her back in?
Should we go in at all?
We've been thinking about a Grobag but will this stop her shuffling around on her front?
Any ideas?

I probably wouldn't go in unless she is crying, and it may be an idea not to give her the toys - it may be encouraging her to play and making her think that it's 'ok' to be awake.

If you can put her in a grobag or tuck the sheets in very tightly, it may help somewhat - I seem to remember having ds tucked in pretty tightly at around that age. But I do think you should discourage any activity and resist going in to her, unless it's really necessary. HTH.

my dd is 8mths and ive been having the same problems, she was in a grobag which stopped her turning over but the weather is just too hot for it now.I have started putting a pillow either side of her at about shoulder level so as not to near her face but enough that she cant get herself flipped over.A nd yes i would give the toys a miss as she is probably having a ball to herself with them at all hours, also not giving her toys reinforces the fact that bed is for sleeping in not playing in.

Yeah, no toys cos she'll think it's playtime. However, my ds who is nine months regularly wakes at 5am and quite often earlier. He is desperate for milk and will always settle till 7am after a bottle. However I know that's not very GF!

bluecow and strong
mine dd has started again! waking at 5.30 and wont settle without an oz or 2 in the bottle and then might sleep til 7.45....
not GF, so tonight we are going to be cruel, eek,
wait til she cries and only go in briefly to reassure and see what happens
i think after getting a good few hours sleep she feels great and thinks its morning up time.

IMO stick your head under the pillow and count to 5000! Or do the controlled crying. You'd be ammazed as lots of these babies who don't seem to need the sleep end up sleeping really late when they are put into a routine (I'm definately not a GF person but do believe in getting enough sleep!)

I know cot bumpers are meant to be a no-no but what about trying one of those.
DS2 always shuffled to the top of the cot and I'm convinced that the bare bars of the cot would have woken him up but the cot bumper gave us those vital extra 60 minutes or so in bed.

Thanks for advice so far - we've tried leaving her, popping in to tuck her back in, no toys, baby grobag, new mattress, rolled up blankets etc. etc. - that's it so far and she's still waking!

I am tempted to give her a feed but worried about knock on effect to breakfast (she's only just started eating a proper amount at breakfast time) - also I don't think it is hunger (she usually whimpers and cries when hungry).

Maybe we will just have to resign ourselves that between 5.30 and 7 we just have to listen to her chirruping away! If anyone has any other ideas I will willingly try them. Thanks to everyone so far.

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Lisalisa. Sleep training & leaving them to cry doesn't harm babies? A bold statement indeed. Have you read any Dr William Sears? I'm all for doing whatever works for you, and some parents chose to let their children cry and that's their business. But they should do it with their eyes open, not mistakenly believing that leaving a child to cry itself to sleep is harmless.

bobthebaby.
I think its an equally strong statement to suggest that letting a baby cry DOES damage them. We let dd cry because we have tried absolutely EVERYTHING else and the probalems only got worse - plus dd was so very much happier after she was getting proper sleep that I can only see the good side. Don't get me wrong - I hated every minute of hearing her cry like that. But think it was worth it.

Cathncait, you had tried absolutely everything else and this worked for you. That's great and your daughter is happy, and you are happy. It worked well, and I'm sure it works for heaps of other people.
However "it does no harm" is in the same league as "crying helps them exercise their lungs" when it comes to advice. It isn't good for the baby and it is hard for the parents to listen to.
A parent can understand they are doing this for a reason, and know they can step in if it gets really out of control. A baby does not know why suddenly it's attempts at communication are being ignored. So if you define that as "harm", then yes, I am saying that you "harm" a baby by ignoring its cries.

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I also think it's harmless. Do you give your child everything it cries for? Electrical sockets to play with? Sweets for every meal? Sometimes children cry for things that aren't good for them, and that's when, IMO, you have to ignore the crying. IMO proper sleep is important for children's health, happiness and development - just as proper food is. And it is also important for a child to have a happy, rested, responsive parent, rather than an exhausted, unhappy, unresponsive and even resentful one. In this case the child isn't even crying - it's just been suggested that you don't rush into a chirruping child in the early hours of the morning - or is that damaging too? I let my son cry at 8months when he was still waking several times a night. Within a couple of nights he was regularly sleeping through and the change in our household has to be seen to be believed. He's nearly two now, still sleeps well unless ill or teething and is the happiest, cheeriest, most loving child you can imagine. Unlike some children I know who don't sleep well are are perpetually unhappy.

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I think now it is clear that we are talking about older babies, and not doing it all the time we have our definition of harmless. It's the throw away nature of the line that bothered me, and that's been cleared up with a little more detail.

In terms of "giving them everything they cry for." If you respond to cries appropriately your baby learns to cry better. My ds only cries when he needs us (a burp, a nappy, hungry, cold, eczema hurting) and the rest of the time he goes to sleep "by himself". I have never let him cry, just gone to bed earlier myself to catch up in the beginning and now as I've said he cries "better" ie less. Each baby is different though and as stress brings out his eczema, its better for me to avoid him crying.

I've never made assumptions about other aspects of people's parenting based on their sleep philosophies, and perhaps you shouldn't aloha.

Right I'm off to show ds how to play with sockets after a breakfast of sweets.

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lisalisa - yes we've had the blackout blinds from day one and she's not having too much sleep during the day - GF says about 3 hours at 9 months doesn't she? - but dd seems to need a little more - 3 and a half to make up for the time she is awake early.

A number of people have said about controlled crying - but the problem is - she isn't crying - she is just awake and making noises (usually happy ones) - do controlled crying techniques still apply in this case? Can anyone advise?

On another note - what a debate about whether to let them cry for controlled periods or not (as a new mumsnet member I'm quite shocked by the verocity of the debate - is this normal?). As dd is my first I am starting to find out parenting is a highly emotive issue, but I guess you have to go with what works for you and your family??

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Strong, just to echo lisalisa that I also indeed do not take it personally. Even though I don't always agree with the ladies in my coffee groups I still invite them round for coffee (and clamp my mouth shut). Mumsnet is far healthier in that you are anonymous and can be more honest and get a debate going. As I often tell my GP, my HV and my MIL what they want to hear, its great to be able to talk freely. Good luck with your dd.