How do I help my DS sleep without fighting it. Sorry it's long

[doughnutty]

I'm getting to the end of my rope. My 5 month old DS will not go to sleep at any time without a fight.

When he was newborn he fed to sleep on the breast. Over time we moved to ff and as he slept less he changed from feeding to sleep to waking up hungry. This was quite a gradual process but now we're at the stage where he doesn't want to sleep.

I watch for his cues and know roughly when he's ready for a nap/bed but he screams as soon as I start to try to get him to sleep. Even with me walking and rocking him he still screams and often only falls asleep through exhaustion and I know how he feels. The only reason why I gave up the vague version of PUPD was because it took 3 times longer. I've also all but given up trying to put him down when he does eventually go over as he wakes as soon as I lean over the cot and I'd rather he slept than I got the washing done! But I'm losing the will to live

Sorry to post and run but it's taken me so long to write this and I need to go to bed as he'll wake at some point and it will mean another middle of the night struggle.

TIA I know someone will have some pearl of wisdom [hopeful]

DD 10m sometimes screams but i take it as a 'OMG I am shattered' scream IYSWIM rather than a 'dont make me sleep scream' i either hold her till it calms (5mins max) or i place in cot and leave the room for up to 5-10m depending on how bad it feels - often she is more ready for sleep if i leave her and come back and try to resettle like me being there is too stimulating or by going away she knows i mean business. also lately she hates being held horizontal and wants to be held vertical with my head on her shoulder. if she v bad i give up (rare) and try again 20-30m later
sounds like he may be too busy to sleep like my DD at times
good luck, i am sure the pattern will change again for you in time, how my dd has gone to sleep has altered and evolved over the months

ooops her head on my shoulder

Sorry I've not been back.
Went to get DS weighed today and asked the HV for advice. Seems crying it out is advisable before 6 months when separation anxiety might kick in. I'd prefer not to but do I have any other choice? On the odd occasion he's left for a wee while to cry (when I'm in the loo or something) he doesn't stop when I go to him, he often cries harder. Help!

do you use a dummy? Contentious I know and has its own issues when you come to give it up but is great for our little one. Sometimes he will intially fight it and pull it out. I never force it in but dangle it above his mouth and then he takes it of his own accord. I only give it to him to help him sleep and if we are out in the buggy I remove it once he has gone off. Don;t like seeing older toddlers with one hanging out of their mouth constantly but can be a useful sleep aid when used sparingly

Would love it if he'd take a dummy but although we tried to introduce it when we moved to bottle feeding he never really took to it and now if I try to give him one (last resort when out in public) he doesn't know what to do with it and just chews it. He had been on the verge of sucking his thumb but 2 teeth put paid to that

Have you a pram you could use for day times naps? I've become a big fan of prams for helping them learn to sleep on their own - you can jiggle them until they are calm but then leave them to do the last bit on their own and hopefully will need less and less jiggling as they get used to going to sleep.

While it's obviously not a good option for during the night, it might help overall if it helps him to learn to settle a bit more on his own.

I'm also a big fan of muslins as comforters - all 3 of mine have liked to snuggle into their (often very cheesy) muslins.

I'm not a fan of crying to sleep methods but if you 'helping' him to sleep stimulates him enough that he can't sleep, crying it out might be your only option. PUPD and controlled crying might be just as difficult as gradual withdrawal methods if your presence prompts him to fight sleep.

You might find it useful to take a look at Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Marc Weissbluth. He recommends CIO for dealing with the sort of sleep problem you're describing as he reckons it results in less overall crying than other methods. I ordered a copy from my local library.

Just out of interest, did your DS have colic when he was younger?

The danger is that you end up in a vicious circle where he doesn't sleep enough as it takes so long for him to get off, so he becomes overtired and it is then even harder for him to get to sleep.

Anything you can do to get more rest into him during the day - car rides, pram, sling - can only help him settle a bit better, as Dr Doobs says. When my DS was always overtired he would fight sleep and would never feed to sleep. Now we're past that overtired stage he will happily feed to the point of drowsiness (although he's bf).

My DS was a classic sleep fighter and I had resorted to going out with the pram or in the car to get him down for naps, but I soon got tired of this routine and needed to stay in sometimes! I realised that he is not a cuddly baby , does not like being held and jiggled, PUPD, all the usual tricks didn't work etc as they just not for him. So had to teach him how to sleep on his own in the cot.

Firstly I would put him down with dummy, then sit by the cot with my hand on his tummy. This could take 45 minutes at first, and he would cry. Then gradually it took less and less time, til I am now able to put him in his cot and leave the room. He babbles for up to 20 minutes, then falls asleep for up to 2 hours. He has a couple of soft toys in the cot to relax him.

There was some crying at first, but there is less crying overall in the daytime now that he is not so tired all the time. He is now 9 months by the way. I hope that helps - I just decided what I wanted, which was a baby that naps in the cot, and then I chose a method to achieve it and stuck with it consistently.

So an update.

After a good nights sleep and going into the weekend where DH will be able to assist I decided to try a loose version of controlled crying.
I went through our usual routine of cuddle and story on my knee, close blinds, put in cot with soft toy. Crying started in earnest near the end of his story. Tucked him in as best I could while he wriggled free and gave him a kiss telling him it's sleepy time and left the room.
I returned after 1 min, put him back on his back gave him his toy and tucked him in. He screamed the whole time but I made no eye contact and tried not to fuss.
I left and went back after 2 mins then 3 mins and by the time 4 mins had passed he was asleep but on his tummy . I didn't want to wake him so I left him .
He slept for 2 hours!!! and only 10 mins of crying!!
Iwent out so he missed his next nap and was overtired for his pm nap but it still only took 25 mins.
We'll see how he goes tonight as he went down v easily for DH tonight as he fell asleep on his bottle. Hope I haven't jinxed it. I'll report back tomorrow
[crosses fingers]

How did it go? Have you tried putting DS down a little bit earlier? My DS used to fight sleep, but an early bedtime (he was protesting during bedtime) and putting down earlier for naps helped. Also having longer wind down - which involved not talking to DS, just holding him and walking around the house 10 mins before a nap. This helped him relax.

Some books suggest giving as much as half an hour wind down before naps and no stimulating play two hours before bedtime. It's extreme but it might help and once DS has caught up on sleep, he'll find it easier to settle.

Well, just as I hit post message he woke. This is unusual. Once he's down he's normally down till at least midnight. DH is upstairs trying to get him back to sleep. But it's been 25 mins now. He seems to be slowing down but it's horrible thinking he needs me and now we've started I can't give in otherwise it would be for nothing.

I agree about the earlier bedtime but if I put him down much earlier DH would never see him in the week. (Is that selfish?) I try to get him to nap after his mid afternoon bottle and wake him around 5pm (if he's not up) to give him dinner. So he is tired for bed but not overtired iykwim.

We have the same thing about the early bedtime. So what we've done is put him to bed earlier (I've tried the later nap but doesn't help much!) and gradually move it later. If I wait until DH is home, DS is tired but gets excited so harder to put down anyway!!

He woke at 3.30am but just gurgled and babbled for 10 mins and went back to sleep till 7am!!!

We just had a fight for his late afternoon nap (got to 6 min check before he was quiet) but that was our fault as DH was busy and wanted to finish what he was doing so DS got a little overtired. Still he had about 40mins which should keep him going till bed.

Will post later/tomorrow to see if 2 or 3 days of this will be enough. Regardless We can't stop now or it will have been for nothing. The fact that there now seems to be no night feeds means I'm better rested so have more energy to see it through if it takes a few days.

He'll be better rested too and should sleep more easily hopefully. When our DS did longer 6-8 hour stretches he was in such a better mood in the day.

Thanks for the encouragement Igglybuff

Took an hour to get him down. I don't know how he can cry for so long when he's obviously exhausted. Not sure if he'll go all the way through but hopefully...

I keep telling myself that if we get one sleep at a time sorted it won't take long.

My DS improved massively around 6 months. After fighting sleep at bedtime he now doesn't want much, if any help, preferring to drift off himself (unless he's overtired which doesn't happen often anymore.)

good luck with tonight!

Slept through from 8ish till 6.30am. If he woke in the night we didn't hear him. Result!!
Morning nap was 1.5hrs and went down in less than 10 mins. Next 2 naps only 30 mins each and more of a fight. Will keep working on them though in the hope he'll get an hour or so. Will see how he goes.
Routine interupted tonight as we were out for a family meal. No bath and less wind down but if it only takes an hour will be the same as last night!

That's great! I hope you managed to sleep too - I usually lie there waiting to be woken up

He woke at 3.30 again and took half an hour to get back to sleep. Daddy had to go to the spare room! But he then slept till 7.30.

He's gone down after a few mins of crying for this mornings nap. Just hope it is longer than a half hour!

Right so the problem is still there. He woke in the night and cried solidly for over half an hour. I changed his nappy just in case and offered him water but it's still the same not being able to settle and rolling over/moving around and getting stuck.

I thought controlled crying was supposed to be a sure fire quick fix
I've re-read some of the advice about getting baby to sleep and the one thing that doesn't happen with my DS is he never seems to get drowsy. He is awake and happy, awake and crying or asleep. So maybe the question I need an answer to is how do I get him drowsy without him crying on the way there?

ATM when we go upstairs he starts wriggling in my arms, when we go in his room he stiffens up, when we read a book in my lap he cries. So he's usually crying when I put him in his cot and if not he starts immediately he touches the mattress.

We do spend time in his cot playing so he sees it as a nice place and we read too so it's not just a place to sleep with bad associations for him.

Am I just going to have to get used to having a tired/screaming/unhappy baby?

Maybe he's too overstimulated at bedtime and you need to relax him more? My DS is not really relaxed by bedtime stories - I think he's too young. In fact I rarely saw him drowsy! What works for him is not directly talking to him for an hour or so before bedtime but keeping him close. So try holding him and walking him around as part of the wind down to bedtime? Keep bathtime calm, have some lullabies and gently rock as you sing? My DS gets wound up when we tried to read to him so we leave it if he gets upset.

I think it takes a bit of trial and error to work out how to relax him-especially at this age as everything is so exciting and new so hard to switch off.

Also is there a chance he is hungry? I lose track of growth spurts - but I think there's one around 6 months. How is his day feeding? Does he get distracted?

With the rolling around - again my DS would wake up having got into a funny position and not be able to move into a more comfortable place as he hadn't mastered control of his body yet. Now he's really got the hang of it (before he could roll both ways, now he can roll with the aim of getting across the room) he needs us less and less.

It will get better with time, I promise. I'd suggest working on getting your DS to settle at the start of the night and accept that he might wake up occasionally for a reason. As he gets older it'll stop as you've taught him to self soothe.

Hi, my DD is only 11 wks old but I thought I would post just in case our bedtime routine is helpful to you.

She does not become drowsy on her own either. As soon as I see her yawn a couple of times, we go into the bedroom, shut the curtains and turn on our white noise machine - we have it set to rain. She has a dummy and a muslin to snuggle into and i cuddle her in belly to belly. If she cries, cranking up the rain noises to match the volume of her crying seems to help - I believe this is because when they are overtired they cry to block out external stimulus and the noise machine does this for you. It took a little time for her to get used to this routine and now she becomes drowsy almost as soon as we have 'assumed the position' as above!

This may not help at all but thought I would share just in case a white noise machine is the thing you were missing! Just google it - can't remember the make of ours and DD is asleep so don't want to go and check at the mo. I will post it for you later if you are interested.

Funnily enough I had to feed him at 4am this morning. He has no feeding problems in the day. He's on 4 bottles averaging about 7oz. He also has 2tbsp of porridge made with 1oz milk for breakfast, lunch and tea both consist of 3-4 cubes of veg and 3 of fruit for pudding. He has never refused anything food wise but he's a big boy - last weeks weigh in was 22lb 5oz hence not wanting to have to hold him to sleep.

Think your right too about not being able to get comfy after waking. He's on the verge of learning to crawl but can shuffle up his cot out of his blanket so he might be getting cold too. At night this is less of a problem as he has a grobag but I'd rather not have a long ritual in the day as he gets overtired so quickly.

I don't have a white noise machine but I put on the radio in the next room to a talk station so it's not too quiet.

Keep the ideas coming though. I really appreciate it.