Night feeds, co-sleeping, about to go slowly insane....

[Hadeda]

DD2 is nearly 10 months old. She is a lovely happy crusing crawling baby and she is going to kill me if I don't sort out her sleep !

We co-sleep and have done since she was born as she has always been hungry.
She has a morning feed (which is pretty much a continuous munch from about 4:30 until I get up at 6:45), feeds around 4pm and then a bedtime one at 7pm. I'm back at work so fitting more feeds into the day is difficult. Plus I just don't think she needs it!! She is 10kgs, a really big baby and eating like a horse (often eats more food than DD1 who is 2) so I don't think night feeds are about calories but about comfort. DD1 was much smaller than her and sleeping through by this point.

She generally comes to bed once she wakes between 11pm and 1am. And until about a month ago she would sleep. Now she is just munching and suckling and pinching my stomach/hand which is VERY annoying and generally keeping me awake. I have small boobs so I have to roll over to swap sides which involves waking up properly, and my body is just SORE from being chewed on and pinched all night.

We tried to get her into her own bed over the Easter weekend with very little success. DH settled her after I'd fed her at 11pm which involved about 2 hours of yelling. And then she woke up at 4am. Best we ever had was 2/3 nights where she fed at 11pm and went to sleep and then woke at 1am but DH got her back in about 15 mins and then woke at 4am to come into our bed.
I haven't tried controlled crying but I doubt it would work even if I wanted to do it. She did literally cry for 2 hours when DH settled her and he was with her the whole time.

What can we do? What is the magic trick? I am seriously so tired, I look like I've been smoking drugs my eyes are so red. I need to function at work, which is madly busy on its own. I need to have patience with my DDs which I'm finding is in short supply as I am so knackered. And DH would quite like a relationship with me and not this exhausted zombie who passes out on the couch the second she sits down.
Last night was just the last straw, got home from work at 8:30pm after a really gruelling day/week and then she was up until 1am because she just wouldn't settled at all and then did this stupid munching pinching routine until morning. Please, any ideas would be so gratefully received.

Oops. Sorry that's so long! Think I'm having a bit of a rant as well....

I hope you get a reply, as what you've described is just like my DS, except he is a very poor feeder. He's also 10 mths. He has never slept for more than 5 hours. Two is the norm.
Everyone I know is telling me to try "controlled crying". We haven't yet....

I am sort of in the same position as you and am about to try to oust my dd from my bed. My dd is 7 months, co-sleeps and wakes several times a night for food. My plan had been to wait until she was sleeping well and then put her into her cot. However, I suspect the fact that she is in bed with me is contributing to her wakefulness.

I've seen someone from our local sleep clinic. She suggested the following for my situation, but it might have relevance for yours.

Firstly, sort out daytime naps i.e. getting dd to sleep in her cot during the day and not having to feed her to sleep. She suggested letting dd play in the cot during the day so she gets used to being in there. Ensuring she wasn't hungry before putting her down. Doing a modified form of controlled crying if necessary. She suggested only leaving dd to cry for one minute before going in to her and then going in every minute if necessary. Recommended trying it only when there is backup (e.g. dh around) as realistically it can be very stressful.

Once daytime is sorted, then sort out night time. She suggested putting dd in a cot in a different room and recommended aiming to get rid of one feed at a time, and to do this using the "every minute" CC if necessary. Again, having backup around if poss to help settle the baby as they can get particularly incensed if mum is there but doesn't feed.

I've only attempted sorting the daytime naps so far (which is going well) and am thinking about nights. I love having my dd in bed with me, but I really don't think she will sleep for long periods of time when she knows I'm next to her. And it's getting pretty exhausting.

I don't know if any of this helps. I hope so. I feel your pain!

Ask Sleepytot. Got my second baby sleeping through. x

There is no magic trick. You need her to sleep in her own bed - she's used to being with you. If it were me, at 10 months, I would try controlled crying. I never did it with my first - it seems barbaric (and no doubt there will be someone along soon to say that it is) with my second baby I did it by accident. I would settle ds (no 2) then go and tend to dd (who was two) initially ds would cry, but I was determined that dd wouldn't have her nose pushed out so I would go through her routine (about 20 minutes) - after about four nights (5 max) he would grizzle for a bit then fall asleep on his own. He went on to become a champion sleeper - much better than his sister - I wish I'd done it with her! I think you have to accept there will be some yelling while you change her routine, she will be outraged that you are not there, but what you are doing at the moment is clearly not working at all - for either of you. I think Neolara's advice is excellent. I also agree that it will be quite stressful. I think you should give yourself a week - my guess is it will have resolved itself before the week is up.

Thanks for these replies.

Neolara - thanks for the "every minute" CC idea. Might see if that works. DD2's day sleep is ok - she has morning and lunch time sleeps and those are usually in her cot.

LillianGish - I have also done CC by accident when she wakes during DD1's bedtime story. Like you I feel DD1 is owed her bit of time at night. Unlike you though DD2 has never settled, even though it is sometimes about 20/30 mins before I can get to her. She just gets louder and louder....
But I think your overall message of just needing to get tough and put up with a week of hell is probably the only magic trick there is.

I'll have a look at the Sleeptot site too, all hints are welcome!!

Wish me luck all...!

For a non-CC approach that includes co-sleeping (as you can continue), try the No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley.

I'm in a similar situation as you, but have stopped feeding my dd lying down. She is in a bedside cot next to us, and when she wakes I pick her up, feed her to sleep then put her back down in her cot. I've also tried to tire her out by cutting out a nap, and also having the room quite cool (16-18 degrees) helps her sleep more deeply. It sounds like your dd isn't getting into her deep sleep zone - for whatever reason so perhaps trying to tire her out during the day might help?

No advice sorry but just wanted to say that I feel your pain, my 10m old DD is very similar to yours and I have a DS of 2.3yrs and it is so hard to cope with them both when you are sleep deprived. I am trying to follow the No Cry Sleep Solution at the moment and am having some success in getting her to settle herself back to sleep - sometimes!

MrsMc!!!! How good to "see" you! We were on the Jan08 antenatal thread, though I had a different name then. Could never keep up so I just used to read your awesome summaries to see what everyone was doing. And then not post as I felt guilty...!
Your DS must be about the same age as my DD2 - she was born July 09. It is both fun and enormous amounts of work to have two so close together, hope you are having more of the fun end with your two.

I tried NCSS with DD1 but had v limited success. I am SOOOOOO sleep deprived at the moment. This morning I made tea at work - put sugar and hot water in the cup and just stood staring at it trying to figure out why it was the wrong colour. Took a good few seconds to realise "add teabag you muppet"!

I think we're going to try DH settling DD2 back to sleep at night this weekend. And I'm going to the loft, I have to get some sleep otherwise I'm going to make myself ill.

Hadeda, DS is 1 and we decided that 3 weeks ago, as it was his birthday week [hardly a nice present] and he was 1, that we needed to tackle his waking, he'd probably suck all night long, given the chance, we had tried tackling it a month or two before but didnt seem ready, he seems more'open' to the idea now
Is hard being firm but you have to. I have to fend him off me, but have been wearing a high cut pyjama top, which makes it more difficult. He was used to associating me and milk with falling asleep, But we ended up offering him water and holding him close while walking around the room, humming to him, this carried on for a good few nights, and was so bad that we ended up getting him in the pram and pushing him around at 3 in the morning just to get him back to sleep. I think it taught him though. The next stage was only getting out of bed and holding him and he fell asleep after about 15 minutes. Its now got down to us staying in the bed and lying him on my chest and humming to him and he eventually drops off. It has been three weeks, so it?s not a quick fix solution, but having some water seems to have helped, because he does seem really thirsty when he wakes up. He?s not there yet, but it is better, and even slept through until 5am last week. I'm really trying to be firm about him only having a sleep time feed and then a morning feed before I have to go to work, but sometimes it just seems so easy to give in! As an aside, we are going to go for cranial osteopathy at the end of May, I am hoping this will help even more with sleep, sadly I had a traumatic pregnancy and I'm sure this has contributed to the bad sleep

Hadeda ? I re-read your original post, it just sounds so like what we are going through except I have the luxury (!) of being a SAHM at the mo (sometimes I?d give the earth to be back at my desk sipping tea in silence and working out a legal issue!!) I don?t know how you do it; my brain is mush these days. I feel like I have a constant hangover! What was your name back in the Jan 08 days? I think I know My DD was born on 10/06/09. The gap is hard but maybe that is just having 2, there are wonderful things about them being babies together I think but I shall be waiting a while to have a 3rd, there is no way I can cope with more now. In the middle of the night I come up with schemes to get a night away from DD so I can sleep a whole night through but in the cold light of day I realise it?s just not going to happen

Why don?t you join us ?www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/851829-Misguided-Illusion-Part-II-Baby-still-not-sleeping-through-by here?? We are all in similar sleep deprived states

I'm also a lawyer and some days I do feel very happy to be going to work with rational people....!

My DD2 is 7/7/09, so just a month younger than yours. We will also be waiting for no 3, partly because DH is adamant there isn't going to be a no 3 but I would love one. Even with a non-sleeping DD2. I must be mad!

DD2 had a stomach bug over the weekend and seems to have given it to me as I was up all night with it and feel awful. It's only my 3rd week back at work so no question of staying home. DD2 herself was also awake a lot last night, think it might be teeth as her tummy seems fine now. But overall not much sleep in our house last night...

Will take a look at the misguided illusion thread - will either cheer me up or send me over the edge!

(btw I was BWMum back in Jan 08)

Good luck this weekend; you do need some time and backup to do it and prepare yourself with some 'treats' (for you) as it will be tough and there will be (I'm sure) times when one/both of you want to give in.

Great idea going to a different room to sleep (wear earplugs, too!) - you'll feel so much more sane!

The important thing to remember is that she has a loving and healthy attachment to you and although she will protest, you won't be doing her any harm, she needs a sane mum!!!

Keep us posted!

Poor you, hope you are feeling much better now and that the girls give you some rest.

its just a thought but i went through something similar when ds was about 12 monthish. it was a phase that seemed to go on for about 4 months then all these teeth started appearing. i do now think he was having a lot of discomfort for a while.

Hmmm...
So, I think score is about one all.

I had a stomach bug on Wednesday night (thanks DD2!!) which meant DH landed up settling DD2 as I was hanging over the loo... So, having started our plan early we just stuck with it from Friday. And on Saturday I got the most sleep I have had since she was born! She woke at 11pm, DH settled her. Then at 1:45 I fed her but was back in bed by 2am. And then she slept until 6am. Amazing!!

Last night wasn't so great though. DH was out with mates (long planned boys night) and came home fairly under the weather. I woke up around 1:15 to the sound of running water and yelled "DH you just peed in the bed!" Anyway, luckily turned out wasn't pee - silly guy had brought a bottle of water to bed and for reasons best known to himself had propped it against his knees and of course it toppled over. But the duvet, sheet, DH's pillows and the mattress were now all soaked. And he wasn't exactly Mr Speedy or Mr Co-operative about fixing it all. So I pushed and pulled him up to the loft to the spare bed. Just got to bed and DD2 woke up. I tried to settle her for about 45 minutes until 2:30am and then decided to give it up and brought her to bed. Given DH was clearly going to be no help at all, I thought I wasn't going to spend the whole night leaping up and down to her.

Radio - you may well be right, I'm sure DD2 is teething. She has the bottom two front ones but nothing else yet. I do hope we get a massive crop of them, if all this drama is for one tooth I think I'll cry!!