controled crying or pick-up put down?

[Lilliput]

Which one? My ds is nearly 6 months old and mummy needs to get tough to get some sleep. Which technique and any tips or help greatly appreciated

Lovinit, we allowed DS to go to sleep by himself since about 5 weeks old, I fed and cuddled him until he seemed a bit drowsy and then I just laid him on his cot. The first day he cried about 5 minutes, the second 3, and by the third just one. Since then he would happily go to sleep without crying after the cuddle and feed, and was able to settle himself easily as long as he was not having a cold or teething. Obviously, from time to time, specially after changes of routine like in holidays, etc and they may need to be reminded.

For an older child (six months up provided that baby is already being weaned) if the baby is well feed during the day he will not need to wake up as often during the night. HTH

I would rope your partner in before you try anything else - better to have baby comforted by daddy rather than left screaming IMO.

if your lo is already clingy, you may find that cc can make the clinginess worse. I have always used PU/PD and dd is a mostly good sleeper. There will always be something to upset the applecart at one time or another e.g. growth spurt, teething, colds, etc and I could not have been able to bear using cc each time to get her back on track. PU/PD is much easier to use consistently as it is kinder to both of you and your lo will be confident in the knowledge that when they are distressed for any reason, you will respond to their needs.

Chandra, DD is able to cry for much longer than 5 mins and I have even had her cry for 20 mins (I know it is hard to bear) but no sleep to follow ... I made sure each time that she was topped up before hand and so was not hungry ... I guess some babies are more needy than others ....

At the moment I am still trying to get her to settle b herself but that means patt and shh'ing if that works .. and if not, then nursing her ... I seem to have lost the ability to ignore her crying .

I find having DP do the 'Shhh Pat' thing in the night seems to be working. DD wakes up and DP pats her in the cot and it usually works to get her back to sleep.

We have only been doing this for about 4 nights though.

Is there a danger that baby will use the 'shh pat' as a crutch?

Hi,

We havce been using shh pat with DD since she was about 7 weeks old - worked like a dream. Once she was 12 weeks, I thought I would try and see if she can settle to sleep on her own - after a disastrous night of trying PUPD (DD just got hysterical), I was desperate and tried CC - first time she went to sleep after 7 minutes of 'complaining'(i.e. not really a proper cry)and from then on she takes between 2 - 5 minutes of cry-down. There have been a few nights when she wouldn't settle, so we 'helped her out' by doing shh-pat again. Since doing CC, DD has become much better at settling herself when she wakes up after 45mins during her nap times.

Best of luck!

My daughter is 6 months and wakes about 4 times a night for her dummy...she doesn't open her eyes, she cries for seconds (mainly because her cot is within reach of my bed) and as soon as I pop the dummy in, she's back to sleep. I'm not sure if she's teething or not which is why she's wanting this, but she used to go through the night and this has been going on for about a month.

Should I try cc or assume it is teething and this is par for the course and keep popping the dummy in? I don't know anybody else who's child has a dummy to know if this is normal or not!

Joe

Six months is quite young isn't it? We did controlled drying, but at an older age when they could understand a little more. You might find working on DS adopting a comfort item and a stupidly repetitive routine (for my ds at that age it was tea, bath, breastfeed, lay in cot, present cot toys with specific phrases (here come a teddy to give you love.... here comes a cat to keep you safe).

it gets a little easier to achieve when they're older I promise- you can wer them out and cut out daytime naps. DS 2 and 3 are quite good sleepers now (DS1 has SN, so it's 2 hour checks some nights).

Good luck!

yeah, in the tumble dryer!
[wink}

Lovinit, I know it may take longer with some kids, I would only encourage you to continue if you are totally sure you will stand your ground, giving in after some time makes the problem worse. So if you reallyu feel you are not sure, leave it, at least for some time

Ok. Until 6 months our ds was waking 5-6 times a night and we decided to get tough. I took a week off work and together with my wife we religiously did PUPD using the Baby Whisperer. Please use the "BW solves all your problems".

I can categorically tell you it was one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. And amazingly it was the daytime naps that were the most difficult.

The first day we did around 40 PU/PD's and the next day 12 and the next day 2.

Our DS now sleeps 6.45pm --> 7am every day. He wakes up during the night (we hear him on the monitor!) and he doesn't cry and he soothes himself back to sleep.

It really is a miraculous turnaround. My wife's baby group (8 mothers) went out and bought the book on the strength of our experience.

Our son was fed to sleep, rocked to sleep etc beforehand... he now sleeps through and also now sleeps for 1.5 hrs in the morning and afternoon. Before we used to have to drive/push the pram/sing etc.

Things to note:

It does regulate your days
It teaches you to watch out for the first signs of tiredness
It helps you understand why children don't sleep through and how changing their routine helps.
It is TOUGH (very) at first.
A baby's wind-down is the key. A minimum of 20 minutes wind-down is needed.

Email me if you have any specific questions: [email protected]

Thanks,

HSB

Winding down time is pretty difficult as I also have a lively 2.5 year old dd and do the evening routine on my own as my dh is a chef. He settles just fine at going to bed it's just all the waking in the night that's the big problem.

Hi guys...

have tried pupd with dd... she got hysterical... am thinking of trying cc... but is she too young??? she is 16 weeks... am going back to work in last 2 weeks of sept... and am on my own... what do i do????

to make things worse, we live in a 2 bed flat... and every times dd wakes up i rush over to her because am terrified she will wake up my flatmate...

should i go for cc or leave it a bit longer? am just dreading going to work at bank which is going 2 be sooo much work after having only 4 hours broken sleep....

pls help!!!

Kate

KandF IMHO she is too young to try CC or PUPD. I think most o fhe books suggest at least 6 months before trying anything. How often does she wake? is she difficult to get to sleep? or nap? you need to look at all things. I did a small amount of cc with no1, but I realised it was waking due to habit. DD2 needed a small amount again, but I haven't had real issues

Sorry not to be able to help more

Hi, I did controlled crying from 6 weeks old. When ds was newborn I wasnt sure what to do at bed times, so ds would sit up with us all night and go to bed when he fell asleep(usually 11pm), I didnt want it to become a habit. I moved ds from our room into his cot( at 6 weeks) and started a strict bedtime routine of bath and cuddle with a bottle. We put ds to bed at 8pm to start with and he cried for about an hour.
It was really hard to start with, but each night got easier.
He also started to wake less in the night and dropped a night feed.
At 7-8 weeks old there were no night time feeds at all. He has slept through ever since from 7pm to 6 am.
He woke the other day in the night, for the first time and I didnt know what to do! I stood outside the bedroom door for few minutes and he settled back down

Hi Mumfor1sttime,
there is no problem getting her to go to bed... she has always been really good at that (thank god!) problem is the night waking business.

if she wakes up after her late night feed... should i just leave her to it? what do you think?

cheers 4 any advice guys!!

kateandfelicity, how often does your lo wake? Could your lo be hungry - are you still giving night feeds? My dd never gave up her night feed until she was 5 1/2 months old but that is normal as they can still need a feed in the night until they are 6 months old or even older in some cases.

I wouldnt advise leaving your lo to cry as I believe they cry for a reason and it would be a bit cruel to just leave them to it for hours on end. I used to leave dd for a couple of minutes to see if she would settle herself and then go to her, give her a cuddle to reassure her and put her back down again - repeat until she settled again (Up till 5 1/2 months I only did this if she had gone less than 4 hours from her last feed - if it was 4 hours or more I would feed her. After 5 1/2 months I never offered the night feed but used pick up/put down instead)

controlled crying isnt recommended before at least 6 months as your lo will learn nothing from it as they cannot comprehend at that age that when you leave them that you are going to come back - to them you just disappear.

Kateandfelicity - I would leave her a few minutes to see if she settles, if she doesnt then I would give her a feed, but try to cut feed down. I gave an ounce less every week i.e started at 6 ounces, eventually only taking 1-2 ounces. I found after few weeks that ds was waking more through habit than hunger. I think they tend to wake them selves,but arent capable of getting back to sleep on their own - not necessarily waking through hunger, we just feed to settle them.
IMO I believe 6 months is far too long to wait for controlled crying or sleep training - surely baby is more aware you are 'not there' at this age.

Realise you may be bf!

I'm not saying you cant help teach your lo to sleep younger than 6 months, I am saying they will learn little from being left alone to cry as they dont understand that when you leave you will return. Object permanence (understanding that something exists even if they cant see it) starts to develop around 6-8 months which is why controlled crying is not recommended before then. I always found pick up/put down to be the preferable option.

I agree, CC shouldn't be tried before 6 months too, sorry Mumfor1sttime. It's a myth that such a young baby can be 'spoiled'. It's a vital time for emotional development and when the brain is flooded with cortisol (the stress hormone - as it is when a baby is left to cry it out) it can have serious consequences for their emotional development. A baby learns not to cry because no one will come for them, not because they are settled. They remain in a stressed state and grow up without the skills to self soothe in general.

This is all in the book on infant neurology Why Love Matters by Sue Gerhardt

I wouldnt say that leaving my ds for a tiny part of his life, maybe a couple of hours in total is going to have a serious affect on him!
He is 8 months, and has slept through from 6-7 weeks from 6pmish until 7amish every night, he has 2 naps a day and he tells me when he wants to nap, by giving me signs, he enjoys his cot.
All babies are different and have different needs, including their own sleep patterns.
I guess I just wanted ds to know that bedtime is for sleeping, and not waking.
I have a friend who has 2dd and they dont have a bedtime routine, they sit up on the sofa in the evening until they fall asleep, usually 10pm. My friend makes up the sofa with toys and blankets etc and fusses them I cant stand this! (sorry but it does my brain in) Why doesnt she just put them in their beds?! They are 2 and 4.
I didnt want to go down same route!

I'll make sure I don't bother reading that Sue Gerhardt book then

There's nothing particularly prescriptive in it Robina. As Gerhardt herself says at the end, she wishes she knew then (when her children were babies)what she knows now. It's consistancy, secuirity and love that makes a baby thrive. Consistant neglect, as in leaving a baby to cry for hours alone, as was advocated in the 40s and 50s by doctors, can end up being very bad for your child. I'm not accusing anyone on hear of neglect, BTW.