8 months and still never sleeping!

[melondrama]

dd2 is 8 months and won't be put down - ever.
we both had really bad flu when she was about 2 weeks old, and so we started co-sleeping..

i haven't ever attempted any sleep training. with ds and dd1 i just fed them to sleep but dd2 wakes up and screams (she has a scream like a fire alarm) if try to put her into bed so she has just slept on us or not all all day and evening and sleeps in our bed all night.

it's starting to drive us crazy. i'm literally holding her 24hrs a day. i never get free time. we have no sex life and sore backs and shoulders from bed sharing. i need her to sleep in her own bed.

how to start?

wish i knew - have similar situation with ds2 - hopefully some lovely lady will come and tell us

My DC3 was 8 months when I finally got round to getting help - fab sleep consultant.

She suggested:
Removing the association between feeding and sleep which seemed to work, so last feed up to an hour before bed time.
Reducing the night feeds with a view to eliminating within a few weeks - I was sceptical about this but actually made eating better during the day.
Settling to sleep, (shushing, patting, or in our case, holding across his body, arm near head and bouncing the matress) then "reducing intervention" gradually.

It took time, DH and I did shifts, and it felt like we were getting no where for ages but we wrote everything down and it did get better (and it was v bad!!).

For the day time naps, I didn't have the energy for a long time so used car / buggy / sling to get him to fall asleep, though tried sleep techniques sometimes. Once he was getting some sleep at night, made more of an effort during the day to avoid him getting too tired and building up waking hormone (cortosol sp?) which can prevent them from sleeping like caffeine in adults.

Good Luck!!

that's interesting deidreB, i was wondering about that last feed. dd often doesn't fall asleep and so keeps feeding on and off and just snoozing until i go to bed, she screams the house down if i put her down whilst i brush my teeth!

biggest problem is she writhes and screams if i put her down even when she's tired or asleep so i haven't perservered with shushing and patting and i'm not ready for any kind of cc

she will sleep in the pushchair as long as i keep walking, wakes up and screams if i enter a shop. she will snooze for an hour or 2 if i sit and feed her in silence late morning/ afternoon but it's hard with dd1 (2.5 refuses to nap now) to play with too. i think you're right about the waking hormone, even if she's only just fallen into deep sleep she'll wake up if i try to put her down and not sleep again as though adrenalin rush sparks her up

CC is tough but great if it works - TBH we tried a but it didn't work. The shushing / patting etc is hard too but we could eventually get him to go to sleep. In a way, you need someone to tell you it's going to work, it's going to take time and to report back on your progress.

So, it's going to work, it will take time and report back next week!!

Set yourself some goals, maybe settle to sleep at 7/8pm even if it takes hours (in shifts if you need to) and take it from there. We found three hour shifts worked, with the other person not being responsible for getting up in that period unless sanity issues arose. Even if you can hear crying (being there doesn't stop the crying!), if it's not your responsibility, you can sometimes get some sleep - ear plugs help too!!

"shushing / patting" for us was quite physical, us practically draped around him, "restraining" him from writhing and loud shushing to stop the screaming, leaning into cot, sometimes with our head on his chest (not as hands off as "shushing / patting" implies!) but in his cot and not in our bed!! Once we could get him to sleep "at any cost" we worked on reducing our intervention.

hmm, i appreciate the advice but i don't think i can do that. i can't bear any crying. she has the loudest cry/ scream i ever heard
also dh is working away for 3 months in 2 weeks time so it'll be just me

Good luck with being on your own for three months. That's not easy. I couldn't have done any sleep training on my own and you do need to be in the right place to do it. When my DH was away and I couldn't cope with DS not sleeping, (DS didn't sleep very well in my bed either, just "fed" all night!!) I came downstairs and watched TV.

i'm still there! i've been sat on this sofa for 8 months!

on sofa with baby? put baby upstairs, pat for a bit, leave room, return to sofa, ear plugs in, pour wine... I'm a few months on and a few glasses in... and he sleeps now!!

can i bump for more advice please

DD was eight months old when we got a sleep consultant in too, very similar process to DeirdreB. It took a few weeks though, and definitely needed DH to do it with me.

I'm afraid controlled crying is the only thing that's likely to work quickly if you want it sorted before your DH goes away.

We got DD's night time sleep sorted with the consultant but not her naps. She is 17 months now and I'm pregnant again. About a month ago I was tired and sick and fed up with her still feeding and dozing on me during the day. I really needed her to sleep in her cot so I could sleep too! So I did CC, it was tough but only took 3/4 days and now she goes down happily into her cot and regularly has a 2 hour nap after lunch.

I never thought I'd do CC, it took a certain level of desperation, you know?

Been thinking some more about this, and if you feel you could work with a sleep consultant, you might be able to get the hardest part done while your DH was still around, and there would be some improvement already by the time he went.

If you're in the north I can recommend someone.

You really have my sympathies, I really lost the plot with sleep deprivation until we got someone in to help, and that was without two older children to look after.

thanks wem. what is a sleep consultant? i'm in north east. we are having a difficult time all round really, i want some normality and it's not healthy for dd to sleep so little

i'm just not sure i'm ready for cc, dd is such a contented baby (being held 24hrs!) and the scream is unbearable

Have you hurd of Dr Sears, as it sounds like your DD is just like mine was at that age. What they class as a high needs baby. Like you DD had the most teriable cry and there was no way I could have done CC.

I found it tough as she is our first and most of my NCT friends couldn't understand why I couldn't just put her donw and let her winge as she didn't winge she just would just scream. Just like your DD she would only sleep during the day when held and only in the puschair when constantly pushed.

Anyway Dr Sears books made me feel like I wasn't alone, they explaine the sleep process and give some gental things to try without leaving them to cry. Help me understand DD need's more which help me feel more sain to.

Hi Melon,

This isn't going to solve your problem in an instant, so maybe I'm not being helpful in posting it, but FWIW I think you're doing a good thing by your dd, and that she will grow out of her need for contact when she's ready. This may be just around the corner, when she makes a developmental leap such as crawling or walking (as occurred with our ds, who was in the bed until 11 and a half months).

If you have a look at Continuum Concept parenting or 'attachment parenting' you might feel reassured that what you're doing is worthwhile, as it sounds like your instincts might lead you that way. You may find, as we did, that a rather demanding baby turns into a very easy-going toddler because she's grown secure in all the time you've invested in reassuring her and keeping her close.

I hope you do find a way of getting more sleep (I'm sorry I can't offer any better advice on how...) and in the meantime there's a thread you might find comforting called 'Misguided Illusion Part II' where you will find other people with sleeping difficulties!

Hi melon, a sleep consultant is someone who comes to talk to you about your situation and gives you a plan to deal with it. I read a couple of books and looked on the internet for ideas for help but found it hard to put general ideas into practice, I needed someone to come and say, this is your problem, this is how you fix it.

We used this woman. I think she's based in York, not sure how far afield she travels. We ended up going through a process very similar to what DeirdreB describes in her first post.

A couple of points though-

We started sleep training at exactly the same time as she started crawling (literally - the sleep lady was there for her first appointment when DD first reached out and moved!). It could be that things were about to get better anyway, we'll never know.

There was crying. We never left her to cry, you're always there comforting and settling her, but there was crying.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and I hope you get some sleep soon.

and this one in based in London - she co-slept with her twins and does not advocate CC so might be right up your street. (and she is really nice!!)

Chireal Shallow - not cheap but IMO it's impossible to put a price on sleep and sanity!!

Interestingly, I used the same Northern based Sleep Consultant as mem which is probably why the approaches sound the same. TBH, I preferred Chireal, both both had good advice which worked for us.

and bumping for you as I don't think you've got the answers you want yet...

thankyou for your replies, they've all given me some inspiration!

we're down with bad colds this week, dd2 full of snot so even less able to sleep, i've been bf-ing almost constantly day and night.

thanks for ideas