4 month old.. tried all sleep theories... does anything work?

[pinkdaisies]

Hi- I'm new to mumsnet so apologies if a lot of this has been covered in previous threads. My 4 month DS began life sleeping quite well, with regular 5-6 hour sleeps from about 10 weeks. Now, at 4 months it's all gone pear shaped and at the very most I'm getting 3 hours sleep at night. More often it's nearer 2. He won't go back to sleep without a feed. He naps fine in the day and is pretty clockwork there, getting about 3 hours in total in three naps. He goes to sleep at about 8.30pm (Too late?)

I don't want to do controlled crying yet, but short of that I've tried pick-up- put- down, and reducing his night feeds gradually. I've also tried holding out on him for 5 mins- he just screams. I guess I've given all of these a good 3 night trial. Isn't that long enough? They just make him more and more wound up though, resulting in me getting even less sleep than if I give in and feed him back to sleep. ANY help would be gratefully received! He sleeps in our room in his cot, and is BF.

Thanks!

Try this

But unless you are very lucky, there are no quick solutions, it seems you have to be patient when teaching your baby to sleep.

I feel for you! Good luck and remember: this will pass...

Maybe he is hungry, my DD2 was very similar, and i think they have a growth spurt around that age. I still feed her to sleep if she wakes in the night.Only takes 5/10 minutes to get her off again, and I think thats better than having her crying and waking everyone. She goes to bed at 6.30-7pm and wakes for the day about 12 hours later. At 4 months she was also doing lots of stuff developmentaly and I think that unsettles them. She is now 5 months and things are gradually getting better. Only one feed last night! Sometimes they just want a cuddle too. Gogle sleep regression - it seemed to fit in our case.

There's a big 4 month growth spurt. Night feeds will be needed as will reassurance from you. I'd suggest getting DH to try and settle if you've fed within the last two hours.

I'm still stuck in the 4/5 month sleep regression hell (yawn) and dreading looking forward to the 6 month spurt. After that we're engaging in serious sleep training!

Classic case of 4-month sleep regression! Same thing happened with us, DS is now 6 months and is only just improving to a maximum of 2 feeds a night...if you go with the flow, you'll probably find things improving without you having to do anything. May take a while, though.

I think you are expecting too much too early, personally. He is very young. Be sure to emphasise the difference between night and day with very different lighting, interaction with you, noise level etc.

My 17 week old has just started going to bed earlier (will now go down about 7pm) but now having experience of 2 babies, I have definitely come to the conclusion that a lot of it is the nature of the child themselves and there isn't a hell of a lot you can do to influence whether they are a good sleeper or not. DS1 has always been a rubbish sleeper, DS2 is much better and has been from day 1 and I have done much the same thing with both of them (co slept, fed to sleep, gone to them as soon as they cried etc etc)

I got to the stage with DS1 where I just accepted that he was not a great sleeper and stopped checking the clock for how long the stretches of sleep were and how many times he woke up and once I did that, I felt so much better you would not believe.

The NCSS is a great book though, and helped me get to that point where I could accept it for what it was.

Thanks everyone... you've all confirmed what I thought deep down- that these are early days and I need to be patient and hang in there for now! I've looked up 4 month sleep regression which so fits what is happening so am heartened to see it's not just me. It's so easy to assume every one else's baby is sleeping well as there is always so much emphasis on the sleep issue. It's one of teh first things I'm always asked- how's he sleeping?!

So I'm going to get rid of that watch and let him take his time for now!

Thanks!

My DD is the same. But I think part of our problem is that she feeds tonnes at night and not much during the day, so I'm going to try to ration the night time feeds... Let us see how that goes!! I think she gets distracted during the day.

i had exactly the same with ds. at one point it was every 1.5/2 hours!

i found feeding him more during the day cut down his night feeding.

sometimes night noises are just that, and ds surprisingly goes back to sleep after 30 seconds of grumbles. i try to remember to ignore the 2am ish one so he gets used to not having it, but there is no point him getting in a tizz about not being fed, for now so i just feed him if he clearly is hungry, even if i don't think he 'should' be.

he is now back to twice a night from 6 till 6 coming up to six month though so shall not get too comfortable .

Try to relax and take each day as it comes - most babies start waking frequently at around 4 months.....sleep training will be futile and an unnecessary strain and you and your baby.

Do you think it's possible for this to happen at 3 months? At 11 weeks my DS had learnt to self settle, then a week and a half later he was waking more than a new born. Now at 14 weeks the only way I can get him to settle is by feeding.

He's regressed to worse than when he was new born! (because he has never screamed in the night since that first week, now he wakes, won't settle and builds to a scream every time!)

Do I just feed whenever he wakes? Or persist with the battle to settle without feeding?

Last night was 01:15 - I gave him 5 or so minutes to settle then he screamed so I fed him. Then again 1 1/2 hours later. DH tried for 45mins to settle him, in the end I just fed him.

Do they find their own way back to self settling? If I feed each time will this get him into the habit of it?

I've tried feeding more in the day (EBF) - ie trying to get him to feed for longer, trying to get him to take both sides every feed, but he won't!

i used controoled crying it really did work and very quickly too unfortunately in my experience there is no easy way of getting babies into a sleep routine you have to be firm mostly with yourself to resist the temptation to pick him up when he cries they very quickly cet the idea that if they cry they will get attention even at this young age hope this helps xx

maybe introduce some baby rice i know that the mw will say he is too young however both my ds's were ready at 4 m and started on very smaal amounts to compliment milk this helped them settle and sleep for longer too xx

This is exactly what happened to me with DS1. I had to wean him at 18.5 weeks as he was just too hungry. He was 9lbs 3oz when he was born so by that stage he was the size of the average 6month old baby anyway and my health visitor was supportive. I didn't get immediate results, but after a few weeks when he had settled on a routine of milk, breakfast, milk, lunch, milk, tea, milk, he slept 7pm-7am. Bingo!

it is 4 month sleep regression

and it is usual

baby rice will not help him nor will controlled crying

a baby is crying to tell you something and at 4 months IMO, CC is a no no

try to ride with it - it is hard, but catch up on sleep whenever you can (even a 10 min cat nap) and it will pass

my DD is nearly 6 months and still waking for 2 feeds at night but i am only just starting to think about sleep training and it will be gentle and slow

I've started gently weaning DS as lots of people said baby rice was the way forward! He's nearly 20 weeks now so I think I can get away with starting slowly! No results yet obviuosly, but I'll see. He was 8lb 8oz when born so is quite big too.

I've also decided to take it easy and relax until he's 6 months old. He has a bad cold so last night I went all soft on him and rather than fighting him to put him back in his cot at 3am I just thought, right, you can come into bed with us! I feel great today as I didn't get stressed last night and got a bit more sleep as he was settled.

HOWEVER- am I making a rod for my own back? While we both feel better is this going to make life 10 times worse at 6 months when I get on with sleep training? Isn't it better to establish a pattern now? Why is it so confusing?!!! Any advice welcome!

Lastly, Jayjayp, when did you do controlled crying? So many people are telling me to do it but I thought it was 6 months at the earliest? Really don't feel comfortable about doing it at mo.

pinkdaisies - i have been weaning 6 month DD for 2 weeks and it has made no difference to her sleep

milk is more filling and calorific than baby rice (which is horrid stuff IMO)

CC is not recommended for children under 6 months - or it may even be a year

you are not making a rod for your own back - you are doing whatever it takes to get some sleep which is a good thing

your baby is teeny - still only 20 weeks old.

I fed DD to sleep, co-slept until she was around 14 weeks old ... she now goes to sleep on her own - no CC here ... just patience and staying with her whilst she settled (lots of bottom patting and shushing)

Thanks Rubyslippers!

I think I'll just relax and hang in there- I know I'll enjoy it all much more that way, anyway. By the way, how did your DD get on settling into cot after co-sleeping? And did she just begin to self settle with time? (and bottom patting and patience ofcourse!) But did you see her just gradually getting better? Hopefully that'll be the case with DS!

yes - time and patience!

started with naptimes and fed her until she was almost asleep, then unlatched and into her cot

did this for a couple of weeks for all naps

by the end of the 2 weeks she was going down ok without the bottom patting

i fed her to sleep at night time until she was around 16/17 weeks and then did the same

as she got older, she got better at settling

rubyslippers, would you mind explaining how you did the bottom patting thing with your DD?

The only way I can get DS (13 weeks) to sleep at night is by feeding him (well, it works 90% of the time). I think he's a long way off learning to self-settle as 50% of the time he wakes when I transfer him to the carry cot and I have to feed him again to get him back off. My co-sleeping attempts have been very variable in their success at helping him to settle.

However, working out possible strategies for helping him learn to sleep better further down the line is keeping me sane at the moment.

pinkdaisies & emmalina, DS has also regressed from sleeping up to 5,6 or even 7 hours at the beginning of the night, to 3 hours at the start, and then 45 min - 2 hour stretches after that. I've no idea if it's a growth spurt & him wanting more food, as I just feed him every time he wakes up anyway! I'm hoping he'll just grow out of it...

hi op. i went to my health visitor at about 4 months with this problem. i reckoned it was this 'learned hunger' business. hv said don't reduce night feeds before 6 months and that if they wake up they are hungry. so i did nothing different and at 6 months she is much better.

meanwhile have you tried do a dream feed to help the baby sleep longer?

i would do it in my arms so she was laying as she would for a feed (or just after) and i would pat her bum

when she went into her cot, i would turn her onto her side and rhythmically pat her bottom

i could see her eyes closing and when they were closed i would turn her onto her back

if she woke i would start again or put my hand on her chest

initially she was swaddled but when her startle reflex lessened i put her into a grobag

Thanks, rubyslippers, I'll remember that technique.

Co-sleeping? Hmmm...is that what it's called nowadays? I take it that means just having 'em in bed with mum (and titty)? Well, if that's the case, I did that with all my newborns, often older ones as well! If that's what it takes for a night's sleep for all, so be it - often DH had to sleep in kids bed - and had to bring us all a cup of tea in the morning!