3 month old - daytime sleep

[lazzaroo]

My 3 month old fights her sleep during the day resulting in her appearing to be very grumpy! The only nap that is consistent is ion the mornings when at about 8.30 (she usually wakes at approx 7) she will nap for between 30 and 45 mins. She wakes up all smiles but within 5 mins can be yawning again.

It can take 30 mins to get het to sleep, despite her ytawns, rubbing eyes etc. And I find it dificult as it usually always ivolves her crying wich seems so sad. I then often end up convincing myself that she must be hungry so feed her and she sometimes falls asleep after practically a sniff!Unless in her pram or carseat she will not just calmly fall asleep.

I want to encourage her to nap regularly and to have at least one longer nap during the day. Every time she sleeps she wakes after 30mins. It's like clockwork!

Any tips? what is a good nap routine for this age?

Is she your first? With DS (my first, so I had plenty of time!) I just did whatever it took to get him sleeping regularly (i.e. went for long walks with the pram. i would have gone for drives if that had worked, but he wouldn't sleep in the car). I found that once he was sleeping more regularly/routinely, it was a lot easier to persuade him to take a nap in the cot at the 'right' time.

Saying that, he has always slept better in the pram and now at 18 months takes all his daytime naps in the pram (usually at home, with me jiggling, but it's useful to know he'll sleep in the pram if we're at someone's house, for example), so possibly I'm not the best person to ask for advice!

It is my first, and i think I have walked more miles since she was born than in my whole life!! I feel like I need to get to know her tired spells as even when she is tired she looks alert and interested so when we go to other peoples houses (and I can't go for drive, walk in pram, put on white noise etc etc) she can very quickly get overtired.

We have had a good day today. She napped (with encouragement, rocking, swaying etc) from 11.30am until 2pm and had another nap this afternoon (although was disturbed so husband has now taken her out in the pram!). We have had no screaming and many more smiles! I think I am going to keep going laong these lines and see if we can't get her better able to settle herself and sleep better through distractions. She's just too nosey!

My dd (now 20 weeks) is exactly the same and has been since about 12 weeks. She also wakes like clockwork after 30 mins - convinces me she is bright as a button - so I get her up - and within 20 minutes she is yawning again.

I am working on the basis that I think she needs a morning nap of 45 mins to an hour and a lunchtime nap of double that, with an afternoon cat nap of half an hour or so. However it rarely works like that, and usually it is 4 x - 30 mins.

I agree that you should try anything and everything to get them to sleep as it's such a vicious circle (have been known to drive 'laps' for hours to notch up the sleep minutes!)

I do think that the Baby Whisperer is on the right lines though: dd certainly gets tired like clockwork after 2 hours awake, and we do swaddle/ssssh pat which works though she often cries for ten mins or so when I start it.

Her daytime naps are slowly getting better but not great and i think she still needs to self settle. But I am going to keep on trying!

FWIW I think this is really really common. It's hard not to get depressed when you read the 'babies should sleep for 2 x 2 hours a day isn't it?

I don't like the crying either but I would rather she cried a bit (in my arms) and slept rather than got over tired and upset that way I suppose. Not sure when you stop the blooming swaddling and ssssh pat though... I guess I am hoping that she will just improve until I can simply put her down.

Anyway, a long winded way of saying : I hear you!

Thanks! it is hard. I went to a post-natal group last week and babies were spontaneously falling asleep all over the place while I was pacing/rocking etc!! People must think I'm crazy when they loook at her big, bright eyse and I'm trying to convince them that she's tired and needs to sleep!

Likewise, I have notice that 1 hour and half seems to be about her limit. So pre-empting her outbursts is the way to go. I'm going to try again today to encourage a longer nap late morning.

She isn't sleeping too well at ight which probably isn't helping. she suffers really bad with wind/sickness so often ends up flapping about for hours instead of getting decent sleep.

It's good to hear that we're not alone

HI my son is exactly the same he will sleep for exactly 30minutes every one and a half hours or so. Sometimes if I wear him in a sling he may sleep for 30 mintues and i can sometimes get him back to sleep for another 30 mins otherwise after 30 minutes of sleep he is smiling and laughing but by 5pm he can be really grumpy - its driving me mad especially when I read he should be sleeping approximately 5-6 hours of naps a day. I am hoping once he gets a little older his sleep routine will be established. I have tried putting him in his pram, carrycot, car seat and bouncer to see if he will sleep longer but that does not work. I dont know what else to do????

Hi lazzaroo, DD is exactly the same... I thought we were the only ones to have this problem. 30 minutes every 2hrs or so, and she only settles with being carried around. Not sure what the answer is, but I'#m going back to work in 3 weeks time and DREADING what an awful time DD and her (inexperienced) nanny will have.... And I've tried nap routines and going with the flow. Nothing seems to work well. She now lets me put her in the cot once she is almost asleep, so I guess there is a bit of progress.

Please let me know if you find any other methods that work for you - I'd be really keen to try them out (as long as they don't involve her crying for hours).

'want to encourage her to nap regularly and to have at least one longer nap during the day'

Why?

'I read he should be sleeping approximately 5-6 hours of naps a day.'

Perhaps you should show him the relevant passage so he can read it for himself if he doesn't believe you.

themaleydale I will tell you why. Because we are all concerned that our babies are not sleeping enough to be healthy and happy. Because pretty much every other baby at baby club (it would appear) goes down without much hassle and sleep for bigger chunks of time.

And - hold the frigging front page - perhaps yes perhaps after months and months we would like them to go down for more than brief half hour spells because we, as their mothers, would like to make a phone call/have some lunch/go to the toilet or perhaps even read a newspaper in peace. We are not asking for hours, just something that will make them and us happier. And less cranky. And I am not going to apologise for wanting moments of respite in my day.

As for your second statement, I hate that flippant argument. We know our babies are individuals and not text book, but thanks anyway.

I would like my son to sleep a little longer during the day so he is not so overtired in the evening for his benefit - I believe every baby is individual and I love holding him and BF He spends alot of time in his sling (he is my 4th). I hate hearing him cry because he is soo tired and then he refuses the breast also. I find it quite upsetting. I

In my experience naps lengthen with age.... Remember so well those 30 minute naps - exhausting after soothing baby for so long then they wake up so soon. But it gets better - or it did for me.

I used to wear my baby in a sling facing in and he could sleep for hours that way. I suppose when he surfaced from sleep he felt safe and comforted so went back to sleep. But from 6 months he took longer naps.

starlightmckenzie sigh. Because, if you read the posts, you would see that babies get overtired and grumpy because they are not sleeping enough.

I guess i must live in some odd twilight zone, or everyone is lying, because I have yet to meet another mother whose baby sleeps less during the day than mine, until I came on mumsnet and found there were some. But day to day? Nope.

And I am not going to a martyr - I want just a little time a day when my baby is asleep for myself, not hours, but 1 hour a day would be nice. This is about the babies yes, but not to the exclusion of 'me'/ 'us', how could it be when me and my dd are so intertwined? Sorry for actually wanting a brief snatch of time for myself IN ADDITION to wanting my baby to sleep better.

another 30 min napper here, every i.5 - 2 hours.

Ds1 and dd napped for longer in the end so it should improve in time.

OP, my DS2 is very similar, except his sleep cycle's nearer 45 minutes. It's because they haven't yet got to the point of being able to settle back into a second 'cycle' of sleep after rousing from the first. With DS2 I just try and ensure he is settled for a nap (whether in cot, buggy, carseat, whatever works) about 1.5 hours after waking from the last nap. Generally he has 4 x 45 minute naps per day and this is usually enough to avoid chronic overtiredness.

I agree with princessmel, it will improve with time. DS1 was very similar, but I found that once he was weaned onto protein solids, crawling and generally being more physically active during the day, he fell naturally into a pattern of taking one longer nap.

StarlightMcKenzie - I have no intention of getting in a tiz but I resent the comment that i am trying to manufacture ways to get away from my baby. I adore spending time with her and my only reason for wanting her to nap for longer is that her tiredness upsets her. If she was awake and happy of course I would not worry. As it is, she often naps for 30 mins and wakes up in tears. I know it is not hunger etc etc and instead I believe she is sleep deprived as she will sleep instantly in the pram, car seat etc.

So my evidence for the assumption that overtired babies get grumpy is that I see it in my daughter. It is not nonsense when you live with it.

Whatever I am doing I am doing with the best interests of my daughter at heart.

What I find odd is , that during the day he wakes fater half an hour (if I've done pat shushh in his crib) but in the night he can sleep and re settle through light sleep periods for up to 8 hours!! And to confuse things further, he often sleeps longer than 30 mins if he's gone to sleep after a walk in his pram or in the car seat, when we bring him in the house.

So imo babies are a mystery. They do what they want and I just go along with them!!

Agree that things can be done when they're awake. I do all my jobs when he's awake. Washing/ washing up/ dishwasher/hoovering/shower etc. He either lies on his mat/ under his gym, or sits in his reclining seat or bumbo or goes in the sling. Watching me . Or someone else is here to hold him.

Good to know that others only nap for short spells too, bt I'm wandering....do they all settle for those naps without much fuss? My little one usually cries everytime I'm trying to settle her.

Maybe I'm leaving it too late? I feel like I'm spending all of her awake time trying to get her to sleep!!

With DD1 we fought with her constantly to get her to sleep when we thought she was tired. It just made us all more anxious/upset etc. With DD2 I'm more relaxed - she sleeps when she wants to and wakes when she wants to. Yes she is grumpy sometimes, but then so am I. I figure if she's tired she'll sleep, if she's not she won't. I try to get on with things while shes awake, though it is hard sometimes.

If she is crying whilst you try and settle her could she be bored? Try singing silly songs or taking her on a tour of the house. I find my 12 week old DD loves going into rooms she doesnt often go into, bathroom, kitchen etc Just so she can be a nosy little so and so and eyeball everything.
I will walk her around and explain how things like the kettle and the toaster work. It keeps her quiet and she seems quite interested!
Maybe thats why she (your DD) soon settles herself when in the pram because she can satisfy her boredom and them grab a quick snooze because all the looking around has tired her out.

So glad I am not alone lazzaroo. My DD is 12 weeks and hates sleeping during the day. She then gets really overtired and grumpy and it can take 3 hours to settle her at night - but then she'll sleep fine.

She feeds every 2 hours for about 40 minutes and is usually looking sleepy within about half an hour of finishing a feed. All my time is spent either feeding or trying to settle to sleep.

She seems to be getting worse too - hardly sleeps in the pram now and wakes as soon as the car stops! I have to put her on my shoulder and pat and shush but if I try to put her down she wakes up so have resorted to letting her sleep on me (making a "rod" I know).

She also cries when I try to settle her but I persevere because I know my own baby better than you do Starlight.

'If she is crying when you try to settle her, why not just not try to settle her?'

...becasue if I don't try to settle her when she starts yawning and rubbing her eyes it takes no time at all for her to be in a complete state. Not just crying on and off but inconsolable. Also, if she doesn't get enough sleep during the day then she is overtired in the evenings and often falls asleep while feeding. This means i then can't wind her properly and she doesn't sleep properly through the night. Last night this is exactly what happened.

'If she is crying whilst you try and settle her could she be bored?'

....Yep, we do lots of walking around the house. I am always talking to the dishwasher, microwave,toilet!!! etc etc Not able to just wait until she falls asleep as she won't so we do lots of pacing! I think sometimes the cries are wind, she often pulls her legs up to her tummy. I was just hoping this would have got better by 3 months.

'She seems to be getting worse too - hardly sleeps in the pram now and wakes as soon as the car stops!'

...My little one does this too! maybe they just don't like to sleep too long in case they miss out on something! I took mine out in the pram for 2 hours the other day, she slept for 30 mins, woke and yawned continusouly for 45 mins, had a coupe of little cries and then went back to sleep for another 30 mins!

Guess the bottom line is there is no easy answer and I need to stop doubting myself so much. I came on here feeling bad that i don't know what I'm doing and amn getting it all wrong. Having read the replies it's made me feel better aboiut the fact that i do know her and we're not the only ones!