Early wakings in a toddler, anything you can do?

[Janus]

My toddler, nearly 3, has always been an early waker but she's now starting to wake closer to 5am than 6am! (Not that I could cope with 6am either!!).
We also have a 10 week old who, naturally, is waking about twice a night, so this problem is now driving me slightly nuts.
The toddler still has a daytime sleep of around 1.5 hours. I have tried limiting this to 40 minutes for about a week but didn't affect her wake time at all.
I put back her bedtime for one hour for a few days and again this didn't affect her wake time.
She has a stairgate across her door so she can't wander and play with newborn etc but as soon as she calls out in the morning, around 5.15-5.30am then one of us gets up and gives her a drink (which she always asks for) puts on a music tape for her and we'll tell her to go back to sleep. She rarely does!!
She will usually listen to her tape for the 15-20 minute duration and then she is ready to start her day, usually around 5.45am-6am.
I have never been a 'mornings person' (!!) but am even less inclined since waking with the newborn in the night (am breastfeeding) and usually when toddler is asleep in the day newborn is awake so little time to 'catch up' then.
I just wondered if anyone else had cracked this or managed to make their toddler amuse themselves for some time in the morning until you're ready to face the day! I may be asking too much but am prepared to try anything you may suggest!
Thanks everyone.

I know exactly how you feel Janus, my ds is exactly the same. We have dropped his naps, tried to push his bedtime a bit later, but he is up with the larks. And no stairgate or anything so he is jumping on our heads at 5.30 or so (usually shouting "IS IT MORNING YET MUMMY? IS IT? iS IT?" )

6.00 is considered to be a lie in in this house at the moment. I'm assuming it is just because it is so light so early and that it will be better later on in the year because I can't think of anything else. It is either that or he is just one of those children that doesn't need too much sleep, aurghh.
New baby due end august, I'm dreading it!

So no advice, but lots of sympathy. We are currently dealing with it by going to bed at about 9.30 ourselves as often as possible - sad!

Blackout curtain lining or blinds can help if it is to do with the bright mornings.
HTH

Our dd, 3 started doing this a while ago and even without a newborn we were going insane.

This may sound completely barking but we've found that if she gets overtired she is more likely to wake around 5 and stay awake thus making the problem worse. If she gets extra naps or an earlier bedtime she will often stir around 5 but go back off again until her 'normal' time of 7.15.

Hey Twink, I'm all for her going to bed earlier!!!!! If I could persuade to take extra naps too I would!
Right, she's going to bed at 7.15pm tonight and let's see! I'll let you know.
Hope you are well BTW.
She does have blackout blinds (not brilliant though), this has been going on for at least a year too, even in the dead of winter when it was pitch black so can't be a light thing.
Her bedtime has progressively got later and later so maybe this could be it?? I'll let you know and here's hoping.

Janus just to echo other posters sympathies. my DS (20 months) has always been an early riser - we have tried everything and nothing seems to make any difference. Tried changing naps - he has a blackout blind etc etc - he wakes anywhere between 5 and 6.30 (if we're lucky!). It's totally knackering isn't it and I can imagine with a newborn aswell you must be exhausted. We are thinking of having another soon and this is one of the things I was worrying about!

I read in Christopher Greens book 'Toddler Taming' that some toddlers are just naturally early risers. sorry no suggestions but lots of sympathy.

DS(3.5 years) also wakes at 5.30-6 and always has whatever we have tried. Even wakes at this time when we keep him up, just is grumpy all day. We now put him to bed at 6.30 so we have the whole evening to ourselves, nice meal, wine a chat etc. and he sleeps through. I am definately not a morning person either but have had to change my day to getting up at 5.30 and going to bed at 9.30 to cope and am getting used to it (gradually). Not much help, epecially with a baby but am thinking of you.

a thread after my own heart - huge amount of sympathy to offer - we are desperately trying to cope with the same problem - very early starts. For us it is compounded with not wanting to go to sleep in the first place and frequent waking through the night AAAGH.

We have tried to fit 2 blackout blinds (from Argos) and both have been faulty - will have to go back yet again and look for a different company. If anyone can recommend good blackout blinds for a limited budget (ie. cheaper than B and Q best offer at £60+ for a 180cm width - too much for us...) it would be appreciated...

One tip for hot summer nights - we have tried putting a fan in her room which she finds soothing - cools her down and the hum seems to have a calming effect.

In the really early mornings I admit to snuggling her down on a big squashy bean bag with her juice cup and putting on a DVD while I creep back to bed - I don?t sleep but lie there and relax for a bonus half hour. She loves it and is happy to stay there on her own and being within earshot I feel ok with this. She is also quite computer savvy and has several good educational games which she will sit at and play happily for 20 mins at a time knowing we are next door and can call out to me if she needs help. She even prints out her pictures and brings them through to me - bless her. I am sure some would be horrified at letting their 2 yr old alone on their computer but I can hear everything going on and can be there in a flash whilst relaxing and lying down for a bit longer. Alternatively, how about having a box of "morning" toys that she can play with on the floor of your bedroom with minimum involvement from you that keeps her fairly quiet and still - mine loves jigsaws...

I don?t think you can train them not to wake up - esp. in the summer, better off just finding strategies that work for you so that you can cope more easily. Good Luck

Stripymouse - we got our blackout blinds from John Lewis - they're called light stop and I thought they were good value for money. We have a four foot window and it cost 39.00.

Janus. Your dd sounds like mine and at the moment we are making progress. My dd is 3 yrs 3 months and for the last few months I've been introducing the idea that I wont get up until after the clock says 7.00. We had a few tantrums but gradually she began to accept this. She wanders in looks and we look at the clock. If its not past 7.00 then she now goes back to bed. We still have minor complaints with her walking past any window with her going behind the curtains and exclaiming that there are no night night clouds only day clouds etc etc. It has taken a few months but I took my cue from the famous Toddler taming book which explained that you can't force a child to sleep but you can explain teach them that until a certain time they must stay in their room and entertain themselves. We've applied the same principle to night times although at night we insist that she stay in her bed. She can get out to get a toy/go to the loo/get a book etc but she must then return to her bed. It has taken a while to sort but so far so good. I'm expecting our second in August so I'm sure that this will all go out the window around then if not sooner.

Twink I know what you mean. It seems to me that the less sleep dd has the less sleep she seems to take however this doesn't mean she doesn't need it! So for one late night it can take up to a week to get dd back into routine and not throwing herself around in a very obviously shattered state. Dh and I are quite nervous about dd not going to bed at the normal time because of the repercusions which is shame because I like to adlib life generally.

Also do you find that generally you don't feel dd gets enough sleep. DD sleeps between 11 and 12 hours - often closer to 11 but I often feel that a longer sleep would benefit her although as I've said above I'm at a complete loss as to how to facilitate this. She stopped daytime naps almost a year ago at her choice - not mine I hasten to add . Every now and then she will suddenly have a very long sleep - over 14 hours. The problem with this is that its unpredictable and as I'm still working she often has to do without because I still have to get her up. Does anyone else experience this?

Yes Wills, dd regularly goes to bed at 6.45 and sleeps through until 7.15 but every so often (and it's ALWAYS on a nursery morning) is still sparko at 8am and we end up waking her.

We have taught her that if the big hand isn't at the 3 and the little hand at the 7 then it's not getting up time regardless of whether the sun has got up early..

Janus I'm fine, just trying to organise a career change at the moment ! If the sleep thing doesn't help your dd, don't lose heart, she's getting to a stage where she can understand that mummy needs to sleep so she's got enough energy to play later. A friend of mine has a ds who always gets up between 5 and 6 and has a star chart for him - he has to play quietly in his room until he hears one of his parents get up. It works for them, although took a while to establish and she usually gets to sleep in until 7am when her youngest wakes.

Hope something works for you soon, take care. xx

twink, I had heard about teaching them that it wasn't time to get up by looking at the clock. What age did she understand that?

She's been able to do it for about 6 months now, so from just over 3. The key for her was when she could recognise her numbers on the clock.

Although maybe you could use 2 colours of stickers and put them on the clock hands and at the time you want your child to get up at then say when the colours match you can get up.

Ah ... another sleep thread ... a subject close to my heart.
Right, this is what we do .... and this might be a long post so apologies in advance!!
I won't tell the whole history but not only is DS a tinker at night ... (waking up loads of times ... and I posted recently about that as that is my biggest problem atm) he was also an early waker from day one.
We introduced the bunny clock (one where the ears pop up when it is set to wake up) over a year ago ... and to be honest, although DS understood the concept almost immediately, it is still something that he tries to fiddle!!
So our rules were (and still are) this: If he woke up before the bunny woke up (which was EVERY day) he calls out and asks if it is time to get up yet. If it is before 6.30 I tell him no ... he must go back to sleep ... which he rarely does but he MUST stay in bed and usually he is quite good ... he will stay in bed and talk to himself! After 6.30 I put his light on and he is allowed to play quietly with his puzzles until the bunny wakes up (7.15 am).
This system took about a year to get sorted ... we have had no end of dramas and tantrums in the meantime for it to work ... but we have tried to be consistent.
There was something quite major that dawned on me about 6 weeks ago and everything improved ... not drastically but wake up went from 5am to at least 6am ...
I realised that DS was waking up when he needed a wee. When he wore nappies it never occurred to me and nor did it when we first put him in pants in the day time.... but after about 6 months of being dry in the day it occurred to me that he was waking early with a wet nappy or needing a wee at 5am. After about a month his nappy was dry but he was waking needing to go. So what we did was take him out of nappies at night ... and lift him for a wee at 11pm when we went to bed ... IMMEDIATELY he started sleeping till at least 6am or later .... but still never until the bunny wakes up unfortunately ... but it made a huge difference!! Sometimes he wakes at 5am still and mucks about (like he did this morning ...) and we still have the problem of him calling out in the night ... but I am convinced it was the needing the loo thing ....

wills - thanks for the blinds advice - I am going to check those out today (straight after I have taken back the useless ones from Argos, that?s hoping I can actually take them down again as they are truly stuck now..)

ghosty - I love the bunny clock idea! If you (or anyone else) know of anywhere that stock these in the UK - please let me know as it sounds just perfect. Your post mentioning the toilet issue has set me thinking that my DD could well be waking up due to a similar issue as she does drink a huge amount in the evening. I have let her because she won?t drink during the day (too busy) and so am just happy to let her drink to avoid dehydration. I must get stricter about this and will look at the wet nappy thing - you could be on to something. Thanks a lot for sharing that one. - you always have such sensible down to earth advice (and I agree wholeheartedly with your post on the troll/nickname issue on a certain other thread - very well said - but don?t want to digress on this thread too much.)

Stripymouse - Dunelm Mills have blackout blinds and blackout linings for curtains (the type where you just add the lining to the same hook as the curtain) which are very cheap and effective. If you want to be doubly sure you could even get both!

The Great Little Trading Company gltc.co.uk stocks the bunny alarm clocks (or at least 6 months ago used to). It only however dawned on me once I'd bought it, that if there are blackout blinds in the room (as we have), how can the little darling see whether the bunny's asleep or not?!

A tip from a Portage advisor: get a little lamp and a timer. Set the timer so the lamp will come on at the normal waking time for your kid (5.15 a.m. in my house!). Then tell your child s/he can't get up until the light is on. Gradually move the time the light comes on forward by 5 minutes at a time until it reaches the time you're happy to start the day. Combine this with a star chart so there's a real reward for not getting up.

Haven't tried this yet because to be honest I just go to bed early (9pm) and start the day early. DS went thro a phase recently tho' of waking in the night as well as getting up early and that combination is a real killer so I do sympathise.

Ghosty, that's very interesting about the wee thing. Ds has been waking at 5.30 ever since he went dry in the day, and in fact when he has thrown a blue fit in the middle of the night and had to change him he has been dry in the morning - I wonder.

Little sod gets left in his room until 7 as there is a stair gate (and he isn't crying just coming to gate every 5 mins calling "mummy, daddy" but he upped the ante this week by calling out "poo" and insisted on having a poo at 5.30 and by them dh is awake so decides to get up despite my pleas.

And I had actually sorted out bedtime and getting up with dd(3.5) by having a cheap big clock and putting her to bed at 7 and not letting her get up till 7 and showed her where it was on the clock face but now work evenings and dd rules the house when dh is in charge so ussually goes to bed when she feels like it or falls asleep in front of the tv. Drives me mad so I try not to think about it.

I didn't put that face in there! How do you get a wink? Does anyone know?