Very overtired 4 month old - pls help!

[headabovewater]

Does anyone have any advice re baby who finds it hard to wind down but seems to need lots of napping. She is generally a v happy, hyper alert baby but naps are a bit of a nightmare.

Nothing much planned today - elder daughter out most of day - so I have spent literally all day ensuring she doesn't get overtired - watching cues etc. She has seemed to need a nap after about 45 mins of being up and has slept from 30 mins to 1.5 hours each time and woken up reasonably cheery. The problem is she will only sleep in the sling so that has involved lots of walking, jiggling and not a lot of anything else achieved!

All just about doable except as usual as the day progresses it gets more and more difficult to settle her. She would not sleep at all after 4pm (ideally needs one more sleep before bed) and despite all of this was still hysterical with tiredness before bedtime. After much rocking and calming, she got to sleep around 7.30 (good for her, sometimes an hour later). She also looked knackered - rings under eyes etc.

Is it normal for a 4 month old to need so much sleep? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill??!

Can't really spend every day focusing on naps like this but if I go with the flow she is really unhappily overtired.

Any advice gratefully received!

Not much help, just to say that my DD was like this at 4 months and now at 5 months is really easy to get to sleep (in the daytime and bedtime, NOT after night feeds!). For us it seemed to just get better, coinciding with the arrival of two teeth and the end of a long cold. She sleeps in a sling or swaddled in her cot after being rocked (in rocking chair - had to replicate this last weekend when we were away by some insane looking rocking of my own) , shushed and patted vigorously for about 5 minutes. Like your DD, she needs a sleep between 4pm and bedtime or it's awful! No longer sleeping in pram or in the car as they're both far too exciting.

Thanks belindarose - good to know it may get easier! All this repeated rocking and walking is a bit intensive - I don't expect to get much done with a 4 month old but something else once a day would be good!

Hi head sounds like my DS!! he's a nightmare as hardly sleeps more than 45 mins at a time. And he seems so tired all the time. I'm at my wits end and even thinking of routines but I'm too disorganised

I don't normally recommend 'books' but the Baby Whisperer is quite good at teaching you how to spot the tiredness signs - I pick up DS (23 weeks) when I'm fairly sure it's about 15 minutes before his nap and we listen to classic fm for a while and then when I count two yawns, or a yawn and some eye rubbing I take him into his room and after singing the same song each time I fight him to sleep shush pat him til he falls asleep. He too needs lots and lots of naps. Only cat naps for 45 minutes so he can only last two hours awake at a time before he's knackered again. So we have four naps a day in this house, none of those lovely, get lots of things done, two hour epics here.... didn't used to be so bad when he slept really well at night, but he's given that up too.

If you're not keen on the Baby Whisperer, I found 'Baby Sense' to be brilliant on sleep. There's a more detailed 'Sleep Sense' too. (Megan Faure)

poppet that's what my DS does. I lose count of how many 45 min naps he gets.... I dream of 2 hour, put them in the cot, naps.

Thanks all, good to know we are not alone.

Another desperate day here - almost getting her to sleep in the car but not quite succeeding, 30 minute nap in pram, 2x45 in sling and now absolutely wired!

I have tried focusing on the signs but to be honest she looks knackered so much of the time it is a bit difficult - pulling at hair etc. I think she is chronically overtired but what do you do about that?? She used to sleep from 9-10.30 am and then seemed able to stack up some decent naps on the back of that - she was still imposs to settle at night but was generally more rested. Now her morning nap is rubbish and she starts the day overtired.

Iggly - btw she is now on omeprazole because everyone said the feeding problem (a whole different thread!) was reflux. Possibly seems a bit better but I still think tiredness has a lot to do with it. The stimulation and handling needed for bf are just too much when she is tired. How are you getting on with that?

have the Baby Whisperer but will check out the other books - thanks for the suggestions.

Hi Head - my DS is exactly the same, overtired, massive bags etc etc. What I do now is only let him stay up for 90 mins maybe two hours max and then rock him to sleep (which can take ten minutes) - this gets a few 45 min naps out of him at least. I can only do this if we don't have a busy day though! I think he isn't used to sleeping for very long anymore

My DS is still not feeding properly but is on ranitidine which I think is making a difference as he doesn't seem bothered by spitting up anymore. I have got him to feed occasionally awake but I think the world is too much for him and he usually is far too tired when trying to feed (he screams etc etc if it's close to nap time, other times he gets distracted, but once I get him drowsy, he starts rooting for boob). So I just feed him drowsy and every now and then try him awake. I'm working hard to get him to catch up on his sleep - he lost so much with the reflux. It's so sad to see him with bags under his eyes when he wakes up in the morning!! And an hour later he wants to sleep again

I also think the feeding thing is not helped by my overactive letdown - it really bothers DS as he chokes quite a lot if I don't position him correctly. I've been working on that but I have to convince that he wont be gagged by the flow of milk once it is sorted!!

I think I have an identical set of issues, Iggly. Have pretty much resigned myself to only feeding dd with me lying down for the time being. Seems to slow the flow down. A more normal and convenient position results in spluttering, crossness and refusal. A complete pain as it means you cannot feed out without ebm bottles - lying down on the floor of Starbucks isn't exactly socially acceptable although I did consider it in a moment of madness last week!

Re naps - We never make it to 2 hours of being up. She seems desperate after about 45 mins.

None of this is exactly easy is it? especially with another child....

Head I've only got the one child so I can't imagine doing it with another... Hats off to you!

I haven't tried feeding lying down but will give it a go. (not in starbucks mind ;) )

well DS seems to want to sleep as soon as he wakes up! Ive tried getting him back to sleep but he's having none of it. 90 mins is about when he'll let me fight rock him to sleep. We're also tackling his bedtimes as well as currently he'll go down at 8, wake after 4. Mins then we fight to get him to sleep about 2 hours later. A later bedtime doesn't work!

It's so sad to seem them like this!

thankyou thankyou thankyou! I have been going out my mind with a 4 month old who will not nap and is cranky all the time...I have mentioned to family and other mums my problem but they havent thought that naps or a routine was a big deal. It is so nice to read that others are having the same experience and that their little 'uns wont sleep for more than 30-45 minutes

i am currently looking into sleep sense as I realise that the problem is likely to get worse as my darling daughter starts to become physically adept.

btw I havent really found the baby whisperer any help, but that might be because I have found it difficult wading through her text that suggests that if you leave baby crying even for a minute you are torturing them and breaking a sacred trust (what happens if baby has been screaming for 2 hours and you need a pee?) and that that if you are having any problems it's because you've been doing what she calls 'accidental parenting' and have gone for the easy option of nursing a baby to sleep or bringing them into your bed

anyway, have heard good things about sleep sense so will investigate that

The book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Marc Weissbluth talks a lot about this sort of problem and the biology behind it.

He is in favour of the 'cry it out' method to deal with overtired babies as he reckons it leads to the smallest amount of total crying for the most amount of benefit. Even if you don't want to go down that route the book is worth a read. He certainly thinks that naps & a routine are a big deal.

Lots of us on the 'challenging 3 month olds' thread have babies who don't sleep more than 30-45 minutes (most of us are nearing 4 months now).