Can you help solve an argument

[Lifeinagoldfishbowl]

2 year old dc wakes around 6/6.30 am and will not stay in bed or go back to sleep so goes downstairs with parent. Dc will then have a busy morning of playgroup/toddlers/activity groups leaving before 9 am and coming home for lunch about 12.

The child also does activities in the afternoon ie toddlers/activity groups/trips to the park/library/friends for tea leaving the house around 1 and getting in around 5.

The child eats dinner at 5, has a bath and is in bed at 7pm.

If he does not get to have a nap in the afternoon (before christmas was having 1-1.30 hours sleep in the afternoon (after lunch) dc will be tired in the afternoon around 4-5 with temper tantrums and tears/grumpiness.

If he does have a sleep - whether it is 20 minutes in the car of 1 hour in bed, then dc is much more pleasant.

Dc has a bath and milk before bed and if has not had a sleep plays up and tantrums, if not generally sits well.

At bedtime dc will either crash out fast alseep, have a screaming temper tantrum because they don't like bedtime and or goes to bed properly - this is not always dependant on whether dc has had a nap but on who puts dc to bed - Side 1 plays games and reacts to requests for toilet/water/blankets/stories etc, Side 2 puts dc to bed and says goodnight (can you guess with whom dc goes straight to sleep for - even if they had a daytime nap!!)

Side 1 states that the 2 year old does not need a day time nap.

Side 2 states that the 2 year old does need a day time nap.

Child needs a nap, and side 2 has the right idea. Side 1 is just making a rod for his own back.

Well IME, sleep begets sleep.

Given what you describe this child isn't getting enough sleep. So a definite YES to a nap from me.

[shameless bump]

Don't give up the daytime sleep yet.....definitely sounds like he needs it....

What happens if dc doesn't have a nap for, say, 3 days in a row? Does (s)he crash out in the morning in a pram/carseat?

My 2yo ds can cope without a nap for one day as long as he gets one the next day.

But anyway, the afternoon nap is not going to be the cause of the early waking, which I guess is the cause of your argument?

And you're side 2, aren't you ...

Yes fruitful dc has been known to fall asleep on the way to nursery.

The dc will also fall asleep most lunch times if poss ie in the car or even if sat in the pushchair on the way to the shop - although am sure would kick up a stink if put into an actual bed to sleep.

The main point of contention in the argument is not the early waking but that if dc has a sleep during the day it takes dc longer to go to sleep at bedtime and therefore a nap should be prevented to allow child to go straight to sleep/crash out at 7 instead of relentless requests - but as pointed out above dc will go to sleep after a nap for side 2 lol

Hello side 2

dd2 is 2.5 and is in the process of giving up a daytime sleep. This shows itself by needing a nap every 2nd or 3rd day, (proper hour in cot) but either missing nap or having a quick doze in car/buggy on the other days.

In our house dh and I are both fairly consistent. dd2 is marginally more likely to have a nap for me, but then I have more days at home than dh and I am more desperate than him for her to have a nap iykwim.

Also meant to add that there seems to be no pattern to settling at bedtime regardless of the daytime naps in our house. If anything she is slightly more hyper without a nap and is very lively at bedtime which has a knock on effect on her older sister who she shares the room with.

playing games at bed time just winds uo imo. no harm in a little controlled giggle or two tho.

most 2 y o still need a nap though. i find my son doesn't go to sleep easily if his nap is 'too late' in the afternoon but often he's too interested in what he can see around him to go to sleep. Any time after 3 is generally too late for him, tho 15 mins helps relieve the 4/5pm hell.

Yes I agree Beasknees. Occasionally dd2 has a little rest later in the afternoon (like today, as we had been to a family celebration). We woke her at 3.15 after about half an hour. She was a bit miserable but it would have been worse to let her sleep longer.

Why do you think I'm side 2 ? [bbiscuit]

The other thing is that, if you try not to let them have a nap, after a day or two they fall asleep in their tea, and that really scuppers bedtime. Better to have a controlled nap early in the day!