Bedtime is a total mess. DD is 19 months. Is it too late?

[poshsinglemum]

I don't really know what I want exept I guess for dd to be in bed and settled by 7.30.
I have never done cc but am beginning to wonder if it's the only way.
We do have a vague routine. DD has a bath, pjs, story but after that it's a mess.
So far I have been feeding her to sleep and cosleeping.
Recently though what happens after story time has varied. I have gone to bed early but let her come in with me. She has been cavorting rather than settling though and I'm fed up with it. I guess I want to stop co-sleeping.
I put her in her cot and left her for a few minutes but I could hear her either quietly sobbing as though she had a broken heart or screaming madly until I pick her up.

I cannot do this. I feel so torn and confused about what is for the best. i don't know how to stop breast feeding either as she practically wrestles with me to get boobs in the night.

Part of me is attached to co-sleeping/breastfeeding but I am worried she'll never settle.

All the books give conflicting advice between those who follow cc (look how my dc sleep from 7 til 7.) to those who do attachment parenting (if you do cc your dc will be scared for life/end up insecure.It's only a few years of wrestless nights)

Anyone else confused by this and have you found a solution?

Every time I go out and mum baby sits (not that often) the routine goes further to pot.

Also some people say that the crying is just an act but it sounds sad. When I pick dd up she sometimes laughs but I guess he's just happy to hug me.I don't know what to believe anymore. I've always found bedtime hardest of all. And some mums are so competetive about it.

First of all, ignore other mums. Seriously.

That's actually the best advice I can offer as the parent of one really bad sleeper and one pretty awful sleeper.

About to start bedtime here but will be back. I'm sure there will be lots of support and helpful advice though.

I think you have to do what suits you and what you need to do. Due to circumstances, I ended up doing cc with dc2 (something I NEVER thought I'd do). It was a total miracle cure but it did help. However, I couldn't have done it if I was in a really desperate situation with illness and physically unable to bf her to sleep any more. I'm sure the sleep issues were making me more ill tbh.

There isn't one "right" answer (despite what all the annoying sleep books tell you). There is simply the one that is right for you and your dc.

I meant to say cc wasn't a total miracle cure. Quite a crucial mistake

ok.

This is what I have done with DD. She is only 14 months, so a bit younger and probably a bit less determined and settled in her routine than your DD but it might help.

DD has always been breastfed to sleep, daytime and night. She fell asleep on me and if she didn't, then I patted or cuddled her to sleep and then put her in her cot. I realised though, that as she couldn't self settle, when she disturned in the night, she needed me to get her off again, cue loads of patting and cuddling.

If you don't want to give up the co-sleeping though, maybe you shouldn't. You have to be dedicated to whatever method you choose. I don't like CC, but some do, but whatever you do, you need to stick to it. I have been doing my new routine with DD for 3 weeks and while she is amazingly better, she is still not completely sorted so it can be a long slog. I think that;s why a lot of people try CC, because it's quicker but it's not for me.

ANyway.

I started feeding her earlier, half hour or so, so she wasn't so exhausted. I started feeding her before she was changed for the night and in her gro-bag, and after feeding she would be changed. Sometimes it was hard to keep her awake during feeding. Then I would get her changed for bed and put her in her cot and stay with her. If she gets up, I lay her down, give her a shush or a pat (over and over and over). I sit in a chair in the room so she knows I am there. If she gets quite screamy, I will cuddle for a few minutes until she calms and then put her down again. I try not to touch or shush or cuddle too much as I want her to take herself off to sleep. This took a couple of hours the first night but reduced massively in the next couple of nights. Now she settles herself mostly, sometimes she plays in her cot and starts faffing and chatting. If she does this I just leave the room. If she gets upset I come back and we start again. She has started going to sleep when I am out of the room now so we are getting ther.e

Sorry that is all really faffy and convoluted. It is working for us, it's hard though, trying to get that balance I think between egtting some sleep and not wanting them to cry.

Also dc2 is currently 20 months and a bit of a bugger challenge at bedtime and in the night again. Maybe something about this age?

Right must go as children playing races up and down the living room which isn't creating a really ready-for-sleep atmosphere!

Thanks all. I'm out in a minute and mum's baby sitting. I'm going to a meeting. so the routine is not on. Will read again later.

Right, been thinking about this.

I totally understand that you don't want to let her cry.

However it sounds like you'd like to move away from co-sleeping (esp if she's not even sleeping but messing about.

What PfftTheMagicDragon suggests sounds like a good option, similar to the approaches in the No-Cry Sleep Solution I think

My only suggestion is that she is an age where she might understand some explanation from you about what is changing. I had somehow assumed dc2 was too young but felt I had to say something to her a few weeks ago as she was being naughty in front of dc1 and I didn't want dc1 to think that I was letting the behaviour go iykwim. So I said "DC2, if you keep throwing that then I'm going to take it away". And she stopped throwing. Sounds ridiculous right? But not like her at all. I didn't say it sternly, just in a quiet serious voice.

So then with bedtime, I've started putting her in the cot and telling her that her sister is going to sleep all night, I'm going to sleep all night, daddy is going to sleep all night and her toys (that she sleeps with) are very tired and want to sleep all night. I tell her that I'll come up in the morning and get her and say "what a clever girl, you slept in your cot all night", etc. I say that I love her all night and am sending her kisses (I know, soppy) and then tell her I love her and leave.

She screams and sobs "mummy mummy no". So I go back one time and say "mummy loves you, but it's sleepy time" or whatever, and then say "I'm going away now and I'm not going to come back until you have had a sleep". I'm in hte lucky position that I feel I can say that and stick to it as I can send dp up to her. If you don't have that luxury, then would your mum be willing to stay the night for a few nights just to try this kind of thing out?

Weirdly, she did cry a bit but went to sleep and the crying sounded really tired. It's like she understood that I wasn't going to go back again. I don't know what I'd have done if she'd really tested me.

I wouldn't recommend myself as a sleep expert anyway, but just wondered if you could find your own way of explaining to your dd the way things are going to be (in a calm, happy voice not a telling off voice at all) and see if she is able to comprehend that as it might make a difference? But maybe something about sleeping in the cot now because she's a big girl but you'll be back to see her?

My apologies if that all sounds ridiculously obvious and you've already tried it.

DC2 started saying "alllll night" when she's playing around with her toys now so something about it is sticking in her mind.

Not sticking enough to guarantee that she does sleep all night mind

never too late. i started with ds2 - 14 months last night. i don't do cc. but i lay him down, leave. cries. go back. repeat. repeat. don't they say that under 2, any new routine can be implemented in 2 weeks. i believe that.

'no cry' is good. many other sleep books/techniques. you do not have to resort to cc, like puff and others have said.

I \agree what Norkily says about them understanding but I wouldn't say 'Mummy isn't going to come til you've had a sleep' cos it will be impossible to carry through !! She could be ill/crying too much whatever.

Used to say a 'long, happy sleep' to dd though- and she does parrot it to her toys...

Have not done cc, will not 'leave' ds crying, doesn't sit with me. But he was co-sleeping til 12-14mths and now is in a bed. He goes to sleep with me there/pottering around very quickly and often sleeps all night (not last night ),m though wakes early. I did a similar 'withdrawal' thing with dd and it sort of worked, though ds has been much, much, much easier.

When I stopped feeding him to sleep, I would lay next to him and cuddle/put hand on him til he fell asleep. He did moan/cry a bit, but for me, I felt I could sort of handle it cos I was there to comfort him.

Whatever you decide, you need consistency (easier said than done). Decide one or two simple things at a time - I will not bf at night-time (I will offer water in a cup, and cuddle instead). It's easier to stay consistent then, if you are not trying to tackle everything at once.
Good luck x

Adair - just to clarify, I feel I can say "mummy's not coming back until you have had a sleep" because daddy could always go if necessary, that's why i asked OP about her mum being available to do the same as needed?

I thought about this again today and remembered that what worked well with DD1 was this whole "mummy's going to go and put something away in her bedroom", popping out for 30 seconds, coming back, then saying "mummy's just going to do XYZ", popping out for a bit longer but always coming back. Seems to reassure them that you're still there even when they can't see you. It was a slow process but eventually we could pop downstairs and say "back in 5 mins" and after a couple of re-visits she'd be asleep.

Having said that DD1 was a much easier proposition than DD2. And with your DD, you'd have to get her in the cot first I realise.

Ach, I know it would just be something I could not guarantee to follow through with... but yes, I guess if you knew you could def follow through with it... love us giving us kids not-so-subliminal messages, You Will Sleep All Night in Your Bed (this is dd's at the mo )

Yes, the popping out works brilliantly. Did it v consciously with dd (she was putting herself to sleep from awake around 16mths) and just-cos-I-was-busy-and-bored with ds (18mths - getting there)

I know what you mean - I'm glad she's never actually put me to the test.

But the plus side for me is that DP does some of the night wakings with her which gives me more sleep . Also helps detach DD2 from her total mummy-obsession (she used to cry if it was anyone but me coming into the room but she's more accepting of DP now)

I've had a read of the posts on here, I think NorkilyChallenged's ideas are good but before you implement them I think you need to stop the BF, otherwise it won't work.

I think to be honest if you stop BF completely, then she will know that there is no longer any milk there and the novelty of wrestling with you for milk will go as it's not available.

Unless they are ill or advised by the GP, they do not need a feed in the middle of the night by this stage anyway. I know this all sounds so harsh as BF is lovely for you and your daughter and its always hard deciding when to stop, but I think this would really help, then once she's used to the fact there are no more feeds from mummy then perhaps starting to teach her to sleep at night will be easier.

Just a thought but at the end of the day do whatever you feel is right my lovely.

Good luck x