Don't know what I'm doing wrong

[edithpoppy]

I'm just about at the end of my tether.

My DD is 14 months and for the last 2 months or so has been a terrible sleeper. She just shouts out for us in the night. On a good night she'll shout/cry at 11pm, 4am and then wake for her bottle at 5.30am before going back off til 8am. on a bad night add in 1am and 2.30am. she has a nap from 1.15pm to 3pm and i can't face dropping that as i need the break from her (terrible thing to say i know) and i have my son to spend time with as well as fiiting in work from home.

we've not had more than 2 hours consecutive sleep for months and its really taking its toll on us both. i'm so miserable.

to make matters worse my DS (4yrs) is gettign over scarlet fever, and just as she was getting better at night slightly - he's been getting us up feeling poorly.

Now he's getting better, she's gone back to really bad nights. she's not thirsty, not ill and doesn't need a nappy it really is just like she's shouting to get us.

I don't know what i'm doing wrong can anyone offer any advice? xx

I really feel your pain, my 14mo DS was a terrible sleeper naps wise until he was about 5mo then slept through the night consistently at about 6mo, all hunky dory until late November (13mo) when he had molars coming through which disrupted his sleep for about 2 weeks, followed swiftly by a horrendous cold for another 2 weeks then his PCV/MMR jabs causing a week of high temps.

Now he's fine and well and healthy and walking but still waking in the night. If we're lucky it's just once and all it takes is replacing his dummy (sometimes he has bad dreams), but then we have nights like last night, he woke at 1am, gave him milk, dressed him in more clothes (am so angry at DH for putting him in one thin pair of pj's), bu didn't settle until 2:30am when we eventually brought him into our bed (which we try and avoid but it's so hard when you're just desperate for sleep). He woke at 4am, took us an hour to get him to resettle in his own cot, which lasted less than half an hour, back in our bed and asleep at 6am until 8am.

I have no idea what to do either and sorry for jumping your post, but sounds like we're in similar situations. DH reckons it's because DS has got used to me picking him up whenever he cries (which is bollocks during the day) but I'm not about to leave my baby screaming. We've done controlled crying in the past for no longer than a min at a time and only when not escalating. Now he stands and screams. He has seperation anxiety when it comes ot me but generally has no problems going down for bed or naps.

I'm desperate for the permanent tiredness headache to go away, and for a full night's sleep. I can count the number of times he's slept through in the last 2 months on one hand.

I'm with you both - so if someone comes along with some magic advice I'll be watching!! Not holding my breath though

DD is 14 months and on a good night will have 2 feeds and go back to sleep quickly. We have had 2 good nights in the last year! She generally ends up standing in her cot, crying out for me - won't take any comfort from DP after midnight. Usually end up co-sleeping, but even then she can be hard to settle, and it may take an hour to get her back to sleep.

I'm hoping that one day it'll all fall into place, better be soon though...

Oh,and meant to say - don't think you're doing something wrong - that's not how it works. I actually think my DD gets confused and often isn't even really awake.. not that that helps in managining it

I feel all your pain and may I say its actually a relief to hear others are going through this too! All my other mum friends rave about her their babies consistantly sleep through with no problems - I hate them!!!

My DS is now 18m and we can count how many sleep-throughs on one hand since birth. My DP will tell you its all fine, but thats because he's not the one getting up. DS also only wants me and will call mummy mummy until I go in.

I did controlled crying at 8m and he slept through after 3 mights but then only lasted 2 nights before he got a cold, then about 8 teeth at once including molers, then chest infection where hospitalised, then moved house so disrupted. Now we are finally at a stage where nothing is wrong and yet he still wakes. He sounds very similar to all your dc's. Good night can be awake by 11pm, milk and then will sleep til 6.30am. But more often its awake by 11pm, then again at 1pm, then possibly at 3pm to 6.30ish.

I can't do cc this time around as it seems crueller when I can hear him calling me. He also sometimes shouts milk. So have decided to try to decrease the amount each night. He only had 4oz last night and went back to sleep so am hoping it will continue until he doesn't need anymore, but likelihood is he will scream when he only gets the 1oz!

Suggestions are to make sure it isn't teeth. Ds was and is terrible with teeth before, during and after the cut. Is the sleeping different when given calpol etc?

edithpoppy - do you give milk in the night as you just mentioned the 5.30am one. Maybe giving milk will give you a bit more rest or are you against this? I also wouldn't suggest you cut the daytime nap - whenever my ds doesn't have a daytime nap he is worse in the night, so the rule of tiring them out really doesn't work!

god oricella that sounds awful. At least I had 7months of blissful sleeping through. Can't help but think I've somehow instigated bad habits during DS's teething and illnesses but have no idea how to rectify it!

so hard to know what to do re milk and naps isn't it? I've always let DS nap as and when he wants and he's generally fallen into the same routines as most of the GF babies I know naturally.

He had a 3 hour nap yesterday which could explain the waking in the night, but agree that when he has 1hr or less he has a terrible night too - and I never wake him from naps having learnt the hard way lots of times that it turns him into a tired grumpy, screaming baby who doesn't sleep that night after all.

DS only has a bedtime bottle now but we occasionally give him milk in the night in case he's waking up hungry and nothign else works (last night his belly was rumbling and he downed two more bottles of 6oz each, after 8oz at bedtime!)

Would it help to think of it in terms of what you would do during the day if your toddler yelled at you for attenton.

If you feel that the shouting out is unnecessary I'm guessing you would reassure, ask for a more patient approach and then ignore any further unnecessary demands until they were reasonable.

can you do this at night?

If I am awake at 3am I get hungry - you only train them to expect 24 hr meal service if you keep this up. It would be the same for you if you allowed yourself, except you don't cos you know you need to sleep at night. They do to. Sorry but firmness is needed whilst small brains lack ability to work this one out!

I'm just about coping with it all... trying not to think about it as bad habits though - I perfectly understand she wants to cuddle up with me.. best place in the world!

We got into this situation after DD had meningitis at 7 weeks old; until then she was a great sleeper - but after 3 days on life support I think she felt the need to make sure she wouldn't miss anthing! And of course after that experience I've done everything to make sure she was fine and couldn't stand hearing her cry. Even now, if she sleeps for longer than 4-5 hours I get fidgety and feel the need to check she's OK

Hobbgoblin - that's a useful thought, comparing it to daytime - will ponder that (when I feel up to it!)

thanks so much for all your replies. i'm so sorry that you are all going through it too, but selfishly it does help to know we're not the only ones!

we don't give milk in the night, as i kind of wanted to train her out of it instead we offer water. but she's not thirsty as she doesn't really take it.

we haven't tried calpol as such as i don't feel the cries are 'pain' cries necessarily.maybe i need to give it a go though.

the suggestion of ignoring the unreasonable demands is good and we have tried that if she doesn't settle when we first go in, but then she just ends up crying for an hour or so before she tires herself out.

maybe we ought to get her up at 530am as i had wodnered if we are giving her mixed messages - ie that if she wakes after 5 she can have a feed and go back to sleep but if its before then she can't - it might be confusing her? what do you think?

thanks for the tip about not dropping the nap - you're right i think its worse when they're over tired.

another problem she has is that she isn't walking or even standing/weight bearing yet. she had a dislocated hip at birth and was strapped up for 3 months, and so she's late developing that. otherwise i'd be marching her out for walks to tire her out - did walking make a difference with you guys?

thanks again everyone - its lovely to hear your views and have some support. i don;t have any family nearby to call on and no close friends near me, so feel very lonely esp when tiredness makes you feel rotten in itself!

xx

edithpoppy - Good on you for not doing the milk in the night. I wish I hadn't started as it is very hard to stop especially when I know if I give it, he'll fall asleep quickly and if I don't I could be up for hours!

As for calpol - only give it if you are confortable. I also got into a habit of assuming it was teething pain all the time and was giving calpol or nurofen everynight before bed and if I'm honest it didn't make much difference... only that he would drift off to sleep quicker.

I would say there was a difference when ds started walking as he does tire himself out (in fact he doesn't just walk he runs everywhere), but it wasn't the remarkable change I had been expecting. I think if they want to sleep they will, if they don't they wont!

Also - getting her up at 5.30am may not make a difference either. You are lucky that she does go back to sleep then as mine is up for good if he wakes at that time - I am always blissfully happy when he goes through to 6 or even a lie-in with 6.30! So unless you are happy with a 5.30am start to the day where you could have a grumpy baby on your hands by 8am, then I'd carry on with what you are doing there.

Poor you, sleep deprivation is horrible.

This is probably a stupid question, but is she eating much during the day? My dd sometimes plays up at nap/bedtime if she hasn't eaten much that day; when she was only on milk, and I increased the amount, she slept better, and I know if she doesn't eat her breakfast properly she is harder to settle for her nap.
Could she be a bit hungry? It's probably not that, but thought it might be worth mentioning.

Lots of fresh air and exercise is good for tiring the crap out of them sleep - maybe taking regular trips to the park, plonking her in a swing/slide/bouncy animal thing until she can walk and do it herself? My DD (23m) is always knackered after a half hour trip to the park!
(And I know what you mean about not wanting to give up the nap - it's a life saver to my sanity and I don't know when I will have time for MN cleaning when it stops lol!)

I had a charge who at 18 months did this and our plan of attack was to give a 2-3 hour nap, 1-3/4pm, then give a huge snack, almost tea really, then go swimming/to the park/softplay (weather dependant) for a couple of hours!!!!! This would knacker the little bugger out completely, he would then eat a mountain of porridge or weetabix with warm milk, bath and bed by 8pm and then he'd eventually sleep til 6 or 7am without waking. It took a couple of weeks of doing this every day to get him good and tired and in the routine, then we cut it down to every other day and that worked a treat. Some kids just need to be absolutely bushed to sleep, and toddlers have lots of energy. They're like puppies, and need a good run every day.

thanks for all the advice everyone, would be great to know what you other mums try and what ends up working - 14mo sleep deprivation support group anyone?!

The first thing I normally try is water, we offer milk as a last resort and if we can hear and feel his belly rumbling (in all honesty he didn't eat much yesterday either so I felt like it would be fine to give milk last night, and he did settle a bit easier after it)

We had a long trip to the park yesterday which did no good last night but I appreciate it could take a few days/weeks of wearing out - he spent this afternoon with our group of mums and babies which should have knackered him!

The walking has made a difference in our case, he generally has been sleeping in much later which has made the bad nights easier to bear - waking at more 8-9am than 6-7am, heaven on the easy nights!

Our trouble is no night is the same, it's so erratic as to when and why he wakes and how easy he is to settle, I'm just not sure where to start, but think we need a plan to follow so in the early hours I at least feel like I know what I'm doing. It's hard to ignore when he gets to the screaming stage, throwing everything out of his cot and jumping up and down though!

We didn't even think to give medication last night, might check to make sure he hasn't got any more teeth coming through (vainly hoping there's a reason and therefore an end!)

oricella that must have been terrifying, I'm bad enough dreading the return of the colicky days so you must be on edge a lot....

I'm not sure the asking for reasonableness will work with our DS, he's not exactly the greatest communicator, usually the only thing that calms him is a tight cuddle....but of course he screams as soon as we let him go. But the nightlihgt idea is a good one, I find some nights all he wnats is it on and others all he wants is it off!

i think a 14mo sleep deprivation support group is a fantastic idea!! only thing is we're probably all too tired to organise one

the tips for tiring out are all good - one of the problems for us recently has been the snow and we couldnt get out and about at all, so we've had days of being stuck indoors, and then just as it thaws DS gets scarlet fever!!

i have a question about nightlights though - would it be too stimulating for them? i mean to be able to look around, or is that more of a newborn-stimulation issue?

does anyone else dread even just going to bed, knowing that you'll be up in the night - sometimes i don't sleep even when she is as i'm thinking there's no point as she'll wake me up again any minute - self-defeating i know, but lack of sleep does funny things to your mind, doesn't it?

fingers crossed we all have a better night tonight!!

Count me in... except am off to bed now to catch up on some sleep; decided tonight not get her out of bed, but give a cuddle and lie her down, leave and come back after a minute. Miraculously, after 10 minutes she slept. Unsurprisingly, 10 minutes later she must have registered I was having a cup of tea and was up again .. dp is now doing the same, so as soon as she'll sleep I'll follow. Will probably feed her once round midnight, but try and keep going with cuddle & put down the rest of the night

DP has been wondering if this reluctance to sleep could still be an aftereffect of meningitis, but I doubt it is - and knowing that lots of others are in the same boat confirms that. She's struggling with a cold and ear infection at the moment, plus something viral by the looks of her skin, but her ear has popped and she seems fine in the day - I just wish she figured out that sleep will actually make her feel better

Rambling, sorry.. yaawn and good night all