Any night-feeding, co-sleeping, exhausted mums with a kind word to spare?

[nomoresleep]

DH is working v hard at the moment so I'm on my own a lot. I'm up at 4.30 or 5am with DS (9 months). Do school run for DD (4.5) then look after DS till collecting DD from school and taking her to activities etc. DS only naps on me with a nipple in his mouth or in a sling so I dont get any real down time or time to sort stuff out during the day. At 5.30pm I start DS's bedtime routine, then I do DD's bedtime once he's asleep, finally coming downstairs at about 7.30pm or sometimes 8pm when she's asleep (she needs support to sleep) I then cook, tidy up, get a few jobs done and collapse into bed at 9pm. We co-sleep with both kids - have two double beds so one of us sleeps next to each child, swapping over a bit in the night. DS feeds loads during the night.

Today I'm just plain exhausted. DS has been up since 4am and had a 10 minute nap on the school run, which was not enough so he's a bit grumpy. My house is a tip. I'm watching the snow coming down and thinking it'll be too cold to take DS out for a walk.

I know that both my kids are unusually rubbish sleepers. They are wonderful in other ways. I do have doubts about whether I should have taken a tougher stance with them. We are trying some gentle sleep-training with DS (nothing like CC) but it's not been very effective so far.

I guess I just needed a bit of a self-indulgent moan (having just breezily declared 'Oh we're doing great!) to all the mums at the school gates!).

Are there any other mums out there today in the same boat who want to share a virtual cup of coffee and choccie biccie (oh how I wish I had some of those in the house!)

You poor thing. It sounds utterly exhausting. You must be at the end of your tether.

Can you snuggle up in bed with DS and have a bit of a nap?

Or have you got any family who could come and give you a bit of a break?

I found Penelope Leach's methods very good with DD at around your DS's age. Basically, you put them to bed and then keep going in to reassure them, but not pick them up or take them out of the room. You can go in every 30 seconds if you like. The idea is that they know you are there, but get the message that you are not going to get them up again.

It worked in about 3 nights. But I totally understand that not everybody is comfortable with babies crying.

PS Please don't blame yourself for your DCs sleeping habits. I am firmly of the belief that some children are just better sleepers than others.

Hi nomoresleep, you're definitely not on your own! I have a 10 month old who we've co-slept with and wakes up every two hours. I also have a three year old who's at preschool every morning and not only that I'm working most evenings on the computer. Knackered only begins to describe it.

I've been following Jay Gordon's method (it's on the web somewhere if you google his name) loosely - just shushing and patting her to sleep in the cot (which is by the bed) but trying not to feed for a seven hour stretch throughout the night. It's not ideal as she's already going for six hours during the day without milk (she's with a childminder and will NOT take a bottle) and I'm trying to compensate by getting lots of cheese and yoghurt down her at meal times. We've had some success with this method - progress is very much two steps forward, one and a half steps back though.

Please feel free to moan as much as you like. Sleep deprivation is horrid!

nomoresleep, I am with you We have 3 girls, the eldest is 4.1 and has SN, so doesn't sleep well at night. DD2 is 2.4 and going through a wakeful phase. DD3 is 9 months and co-sleeps. And wakes....alot.

Thank you everyone! I'm sorry I didn't post to say thank you earlier. Had nightmare day. But I did read your posts and they made me feel better. DH has just arrived home early and taken over bedtime and I'm drowning my sorrows in a glass of red wine.

Lou - how on earth do you manage 3 bad sleepers? I'm genuinely interested! I really wanted 3 kids but we've taken the decision not to have any more because of the dreadful sleep issues we've had with both of them. I'm v about it.

Thank you also for the gentle suggestions on sleep training. I know we need to do something more - we are scarred by the experience of trying to sleep train DD in various ways and at various stages, all with no success (probably because we stopped short of doing anything like CC so we were basically just faffing about with NCSS and baby whisperer-type-stuff). Only thing that worked with her was co-sleeping and as much comfort as she wanted.

Inveteratenamechanger - does going in and out like that work for co-sleepers do you think? I'm not convinced...DS crawls around the bed when he's awake and if I'm not in there to stop him I imagine he'd just crawl off the edge of the bed. And I'm not really sure that there's much benefit in training him to go to sleep by himself, i.e. with nobody next to him, when for most of the night I am actually in there next to him iyswim?

No, no family nearby and I can't nap when he does - I can feed him to sleep for a nap but he resurfaces every 5-20 minutes and suckles to get back off again and I can't sleep through the suckling so the most sleep I'd get is 20 minutes which is worse than nothing I find!!

Missmodular - I have been eyeing up Jay Gordon's method too. It seems like the best thing for co-sleeping night-feeders. We keep wanting to try something like this but there's always illness, teething or just general exhaustion and dread of the screaming that puts us off.

I need to pull myself together and get some perspective! Tis not forever and they are both lovely kids.[pours second large glass of wine and hopes to defer next bf for a few hours]

Thanks again everyone - I really needed your posts today.

Yes, I wouldn't try sleep training while there's illness or teething going on. We had to pretty much go back to square one when our 10mo got a cold.

Are the two double beds in the same room, if so is there a way of moving one into another room? We found a bit of success taking it in turns being in with the baby, one of us sleeping with her until 3am then going downstairs to get a few hours' unbroken sleep.

I've just realised you've been putting both to bed yourself! That is very tiring - I hate it when DP isn't here to help with the 3yo. You deserve that wine

OMG - poor you - this sounds a horrendously exhausting situation. Probably tiring for the kids too.

I know the whole CC thing is difficult and it's not something I have ever felt happy about - but sounds like you need to step back, look at what's happening and how it is affecting all of you and make a gentle but firm plan to move you all to a more manageable sleep arrangement.

My friend used a sleep clinic who gave advice and a step by step plan over the phone (I think it was basically gradual withdrawal). It really helped them and was very gentle.

Here's the link

www.mill-pond.co.uk/

You have my sympathy and I hope you manange to gradually introduce a healthier and happier sleep routine for all.

or this place?

www.naturallynurturing.co.uk/

Thanks again.

Kitsilano - we've used Millpond's gradual retreat method to go from feeding to sleep to settling himself with me next to him at bedtime, but this is not the panacea it's cracked up to be. He still wakes at 2-hourly intervals in the night, and it hasn't helped (yet) with early wake-ups or naps.

Leonie - thank you. It really helps knowing that I'm not alone!

Missmodular - thanks, (and I had a second glass of wine!)

It's interesting how what is 'copeable' is so relative isn't it - I read threads on here from people who say that their 6 mo old is waking once or twice in the night and they can't cope any more and then read posts like Lou's and Leonie's which suggest they have been up at night constantly for years on end and still managing. I can't even decide what's manageable for myself - some days I think this is unsustainably knackering and I need to 'get tough' (whatever that would mean) and then other days I think it's fine, and my kids are happy and healthy and I should just keep going with the flow.

just wishing you a few hours sleep!! :-)

My situation not nearly as bad as yours, but am co-sleeping with an 11 month old who wakes up 4 times a night on a good night!

(I try to wipe the other (numerous) nights from my memory when I wake up and see him smiling at me.)

I too read posts from the people with twice-a-night wakers and feel green with envy.

Am interested in the double co-sleepers, cos we'd really like to try for DC2 soon, and I'm assuming from all the threads I've read that DS won't magically start sleeping through in a cot in another room any time soon!!
I'd like to co-sleep with next DC, because it just makes the feeding much easier (especially when trying to establish breastfeeding). I wish I'd trusteed my instincts and started doing it much sooner with DS.
Do I really need 2 double beds? or do you reckon we could all fit in our bed? (it's a 'king sized' one, so not that little...)

Hi Picc - we started out with one huge bed and it worked v well for bedtimes because I could settle them both together but I found that it was a disaster in the night as DS would wake up DD when he woke for a feed or got up in the morning and DD would wake DS if she got up to go to the loo or woke early one morning for some reason. And then DH and I would both be awake whenever either kid was awake so there was no taking in turns. So we ended up with two double beds in different rooms (sorry I should have clarified that they are not in the same room).

So it was not a question of fitting into the space but an issue of everyone disturbing everyone else. But I guess it depends on whether your Lo's are heavy or light sleepers!

Oh, God, nine months old is horrendous. My daughter has always been a bit remedial in the sleep department, but nine months had me and my husband both wanting to put her out on the kerb with a sign round her neck; Free To Good Home.

It was awful.

Anyway, we did whatever worked; co-sleeping, nursing all night (I was still breastfeeding), unashamed co-napping on my days off, etc. Once she hit 10 months it improved on its own, but not enough. It was better but she still woke 3-5 times a night. Then we did some CIO and she was better within 3 nights. I'm not necessarily selling CIO, but I will say that 9 months old is, like, Dark Time Of The Soul. It will get better. Promise!

Hi nomoresleep,

Yep, that makes sense. Thought I might have to do something similar. DS wakes up at slightest thing (after initial deep sleep when he first goes to bed).

Oh well, guess I'll just have to see how it goes and deal with it at the time. Babies are never predictable, are they?

Nomoresleep - I could have written your posts! Except for only having one DS, we're having similar problems and your last post is how I feel too.

We co-sleep with DS (14 mo) and he wakes a few times a night for breastfeed. Problem is, I also wake up on my own so I'm not getting much sleep! I can't even nap during the day as I'm back at work.

I'd offer you a choccy biccy but I ate them all this afternoon

I feel your pain, we are only just coming out of this hell now DS2 is 2.5yo.

I'm always posting this but if you do a search you will find my posts about 'Kiss to sleep' which is a good and gentle way of settling them off to sleep.

Don't feel bad about the house.

You are so much better than me, I think I told every man and his dog what hell I was living through!

If all else fails, I would heartily recommend a couple of nursery sessions each week so you can go back to bed and catch up on sleep before you start getting ill and feeling crazy.

It is really tuff.DD1 was the worst (or was it us ?) I used cc at 6 months and it worked a treat.However we have 4 children and someone is always up sore tummy,needs the loo,hot bottle,drink of water or a breast feed !!!!!I have had 10 years of sleep deprevationI think I am finally used to it.

The 9 and 7 year olds are pretty good at sleeping through.DS1 aged 4 is not so good and often ends up in bed with DH.I am cosleeping with our 3 month old in a different room.(who after a struggle now naps in his cot and goes to bed in his cot but comes in with me at 2am as I am zonked and I usually fall asleep while feeding him)I did find the baby whisperer very good.

The most successful tecnique is to be constistant but that is not easy at 2am.

I wish you luck and will be thinking of you at 2am.Night night.

Thanks again everyone. It's kind of you to post and it makes me feel better. It's tough isn't it! I think it's the 4 or 5am wake-ups that are tipping me over the edge right now. DD did this too, for about a year (ffs!) but it was easier to take turns/catch up on sleep when it was just her.

I will do a search on kiss-to-sleep - sounds interesting.