I'm at a loss with how to deal with "very difficult to actually get to sleep" 18 month old

[robino]

DD2 is 18 months. She has always been hard to get to sleep. Well, I suppose it wasn't too bad until she stopped feeding to sleep at about 10 months.

About 6 months ago I resorted to controlled crying (against my original wishes and judgements) because she shares a room with DD1 who is only 17 months older and was taking up to an hour of patting, shhhh-ing, rocking, singing and poor DD1 was beginning to play up for the attention. It took over our life and was making us all thoroughly miserable so did CC which worked after 3 nights, for a while.

We've gradually got to the stage where it's got crazy again. She has had a very unsettled time with Christmas, grandparent visits etc. She seems to get more worked up the more time you spend with her trying to get her to sleep so for a few days we put her in her cot and left her. She shouted lots for 5 minutes, then started her groaning phase (!) which is a sure sign that she's off to sleep and lo and behold, dropped off. Great, for three nights. Now, the moment you put her anywhere near her cot she goes rigid and screams .

I'm at a loss. Last night I decided that leaving her alone was probably the worst thing I could have done . So, I explained to (as much as you can with a not quite 3 year old) DD1 that DD2 was struggling to get to sleep and that it would be nice if she went to bed at the same time as DD2 (she's been staying downstairs in front of the TV for a ridiculous amount of time). Bless her, she agreed. So, we went up to bed, had milk and a story (after bath) and then put both in bed for another story. Cue DD2 screaming, so held her while we had 2nd story, then put her to bed. I sat in their room humming the same song over and over again but not looking or touching (unless you have the patience and back stamina to lean over her cot and pat her back firmly for an hour or more, touching seems to make her worse). 25 mins in I think she was probably heading to sleep but OH helpfully returned home and came up to help, throwing it all out the window....

D'y'reckon I'm on the right track? I honestly fear insanity come bedtime but if a few weeks of sitting in their room humming until she sleeps so that she knows we're not leaving her I can probably do unless it's for hours at a time.

Only other thought I've had is that she doesn't like her cot - she jumps into DD1's bed happily during the day, pulls the covers over and shouts "nightnight". Don't really want to release her take the sides off yet...

I'm on here for help too, so not any kind of expert, but...

I've just read the no cry sleep solution and in there it says that if you've done any leaving to cry/controlled crying then you have to try to get rid of the negative sleep associations that the cot has for them. It suggests spending time chatting, cuddling or quietly playing in their cot 2 or 3 times a day so they see it as a happy place again.

Oh and friends with 18 month old twins got them toddler beds that they helped choose duvets for etc and made a big deal about, but they only got to use them as long as they stayed in them - otherwise they went back in cots.

Hope those thoughts help a bit... I'm off to try and get some help for my own not sleeping 15 month old now...

bumping this as have the same problem! DS sounds very like the OP's baby, he's still crying (DH is with him) after nearly an hour..very very frustrating especially after a full day's work!

can anyone summarise what the NCSS method is and does it work?

There are loads of different ideas in the book, depending on what the issues are (BF/FF/Co-sleeping/age etc) that cumulatively have an effect of gently helping then sleep better... would take ages to list them all (although there is a separate thread where you'd get some more ideas) but a couple of the key ones are:

Having quite a fixed routine for meal, nap, waking up and sleep times and sticking to it so baby is trained to be asleep and wake up at certain times.
Having the hour or so before bed as winding down/quiet time and having a routine for what you do then too.
Putting the baby down when they're not quite asleep, so they settle themselves and aren't startled to wake up in the night and find you not there.

Have missed loads, but hopefully given you a few ideas.

Completely sounds like DD too (18 and half mths) - even including the jumping into bed happily in daytime and 'snoring'. Its takes up a lot of the evening.

DD takes between 45 mins and 2 hrs to get to sleep. DS is 4 yrs, and despite being worse than DD at her age, now goes very well to sleep, and they are in together. We used bits of NCSS for different problems.

Does your DD wake in the night too, or is getting to sleep the 'only' problem?

My ideas would be -
put DC1 down first? Does she go to sleep more quickly? Would she be disturbed by DD going down second? My DS doesn't wake even with loud shouting of his name. And I think they get used to ignoring noise - DD used to wake very easily and within 2 weeks of sharing now doesn't wake when we go it, or if DS talks in his sleep.

Bunkbed for your older DD? Then kids out of eyeline of each other, maybe less disruptive to each other?

Making the sitting with her less painful! We still sit with DD (thats our next NCSS problem!), but have made it less painful by using the time - working Mumsnet on the laptop, reading etc. with small torch. I can shush quite well whilst reading/working/sleeping!

Other people I know will put older child to sleep in their bed, then move them out when asleep into their own bed (when youngest is asleep) - is that an option? My DS did this for a few weeks cos of illness, and it worked fine.

Hope tonight was quicker! Good luck.

Thanks for suggestions folks.

Tuesday night was a bit better. Did my bath/story/milk routine then popped her into her cot and DD1 into bed. DD2 screamed. So I stayed on the sofa in their room and did exactly as kayjayel suggested. I hummed twinkle twinkle about 4500 times while I knitted (the having something to do and focus on really helped keep me calm; the humming and screaming were almost a background in my mind rather than the fraught focus). DD1 was asleep in about 5 mins (she really is very good at going to sleep!) and DD2 started sounding less fraught after about 5 mins but took another 15 to drop off. I did go to lie her back down in her cot and tuck her up after about 5 mins but that just ramped up the screaming again so I decided that I would just continue sitting and humming for as long as it took; yes, she was still crying herself to sleep but not alone.

Yesterday she managed to avoid having a nap and then dropped off to sleep in my arms during their story ; am hoping this does not signal the end of her nap....

Ohmygod, 18mth olds can't drop naps can they?!

Sounds much better, at least your eldest can drop off despite screaming, then its only one to deal with! I had less luck - DD decided to play between the hours of 12 and 3.30am. No idea why, crazy baby.