Please, please help me get my 11 week old to sleep during the day...

[duende]

I am really struggling with this at the moment. Can't get my DS to nap during the day. Rocking, swinging, patting and shhhing, singing, whispering, stroking, cuddling - don't work. even if after a 40 minute battle he finally falls asleep on my lap, he wakes up 30 minutes later, or as soon as I put him down in his basket. He only gets 2-3 half hour naps a day and screams with tiredness from mid day onwards.
I tried putting him down awake before he's too tired, but he'll just lie there for ages awake, or screams. I don't think pick up put down would work, as he never seems to wear himself down when crying, just winds himself up. Every time I try and get him to sleep he screams and screams forever. I think if I could teach him how to fall asleep, it would improve his and mine quality of life immensely.
Has anyone got any words of wisdom?

I think it was £90 per night to the nanny, plus £125 introduction fee to agency then £20 per night to agency. So definitely in the luxury category for me.

oh no - we've been there done that too!

I think it's the fear of rubbish naps = restless nights that drive you mad. I used get so upset if ds woke after only half an hour nap. At 19months i still know whether we're in for a good night or not depending on how he has slept in the day.

We did lots of pram walking, or rocking the pram in the kitchen with the tumble dryer or extractor fan on! Spent many hours driving around town looking at xmas lights too..and staying away from traffic lights around the half hour mark incase we had to stop!!!! I read its something to do with their sleep cycles and you need to be able to kick them through to the next one. I think the baby whisperer said about back rubbing or patting around this time when they stir.

Hope things improve for you soon

Lily - I agree - the fear is almost as bad as the exhaustion from the ensuring bad night LOL (actually don't know why I am laughing - I hated that feeling). You spend the rest of the day knowing that the bad nap will lead to a bad night sleep. Urghhh!

Duende - at your first walk - but hopefully the brighter weather will make it more bearable! I did try and see it as a weightloss plan! And ended up losing a few pounds from the 2 hour enforced walk! Also I found that although she was often awake during the first few walks she didn't cry much when being wheeled around so it was somehow more bearable than being stuck in the house when she was just sad, tired and I couldn't get her to sleep!

Duende-where are you in the country? I know the lady who runs NN in the SW, she is lovely and brilliant at her job and I think although it is £90 per night fee she only charges £25 joining/registration fee.

hello everyone today's balance: 2 hour walk, 1.5 hour nap! as for it being a weight loss exercise, I'm not that keen..I've lost so much weight already, with stress and not having time to eat, that I have nothing to wear.
we had a very difficult time today feeding him, lots of screaming it looked as if his reflux came back, even though he's on omeprazole. very distressing and worrying.

bratnav, we're in bedfordshire, but thank you!

Duende - good to hear that not everyone deals with the stress by eating lots of chocolate eclairs (as I did!).

It's great to hear he had a better sleep but so sorry that he was so unsettled with his feeding. I've not had experience with reflux so can't offer advice on that - only sympathy!

Oh that does sound tough duende, and I'm worried you're not eating enough (I am very food focussed ). When I was doing the pram nap around lunchtime I recall picking up something that I could eat while walking along, e.g. ready-made sandwich, or one of those nice grilled italian bread things - what are they called? Don't worry about those fussy people who say you shouldn't eat while walking - nobody seems to see you when you're pushing a pram anyway .

Really really hope that your DS's reflux goes away at the seemingly magical 3-month mark.

hells and IsItMe, you are very lovely, thank you for holding my hand

I am normally also very food focussed and love to eat I'm sure when things settle a bit I'll be back to my normal self. DP was joking that I should by myself a huge cheesecake everytime I go for a walk to just replace the calories I burn ;)

and we also really hope that DS's reflux will go away soon, it is absolutely heart breaking seeing him in pain. Last week our GP sent an urgent referral for him to see a paed. Well, I rang the hospital today and they haven't even received it yet. So much for the urgent

Ooh cheesecake! Had a really nice New York cheesecake from Ocado the other week for DH's birthday. You should definitely get some.

But seriously, hope the referral gets sorted soon, it is horrible to think of the little ones in pain .

Oh Duende I've just come in to see how you are doing. That's good about the 1.5 hour sleep but not good about you not eating and definitely not good about the reflux. You poor thing - you've not got it easy at the moment. We will keep our fingers crossed and our tails tied in a knot in the Cosy Tiger household that the referral finds its way to the hospital asap. We had a spell of having to deal with NHS admin when DD had a dislocated hip (she's fine now) and it was very frustrating at times, so I really do sympathise.

just remembered when I was pregnant I saw an episode of the baby whisperer where she helped a baby with really bad reflux. I seem to recall that she concentrated on always having the baby on an upward tilt....so slightly raised when sleeping, in the pram, bath etc. It was amazing the difference. I wish I could remember it better.

Do you have the baby whisperer book? Perhaps it's in there. will see if I can find my copy and check it out.

wow, *DrCosyTiger" came to see me. I'm staying here. Mumsnet's good. [makes herself comfortable and waves at tiger]

hells, yes, we do it. We raise the top of his basket and carry him upright a lot. thanks for thinking of us.

Sorry not read whole thread but just wanted to say an osteopath worked wonders for my DS at 6wo. He would not settle at night unless he was lying on my chest - he had been a forceps delivery and something had been knocked ever so slightly out. He had two appts with the osteo and was like a different baby.

Worth a try? Good luck!

oh I can't believe I didn't mention that neenz - I completley forgot - we had a cranial ostepath for dd which really helped just about everything.

neenz, we tried it. DS had 3 appointments with a cranial therapist but it didn't work for him. thanks for the suggestion though.

duende - how have the last few days been?

hi hellsbelles, thank you for asking
we had a really bad day on thu, when DS literally screamed all day. I don't know if his reflux was particularly bad, or maybe babies just have days like that? apart from that, it has been reasonably good. We've been walking everyday apart from today. Yesterday he fell asleep in the pram (after a long screaming session) and slept for nearly two hours. Getting him to sleep in the pram at home also seems to be working atm, although he'll only sleep for 30 minutes or so.
Another nice thing which has happened is that 3 nights this week, he settled himself and fell asleep in his basket at bedtime - I calmed him down and got him to chill on my lap, then put him down. He stayed awake chatting to himself for nearly 30 minutes and then dropped off. This has never happened before!

Well it sounds like you are doing so well with the sleeping - that is very encouraging about him settling himself at night....really really good. I wouldn't worry too much about the screaming in the pram before he goes to sleep - DD did exactly the same and I'm sure the people walking past me would wonder what an earth I had done to her! But soon enough she'd be alsleep.

Also do you find it very frustrating how bloody noisy it seems when you are walking around just after you have got them to sleep? I can't believe how much 'wake up potential' there is around

But so so sorry to hear about how bad it was today. Yes babies do have bad days but to be honest I can't remember a day that was constant screaming with DD so I'm guessing you must be right and it's the reflux. What has happened with the referral - any news?

Duende - I agree with several others here - I reckon it can take a bit of time for some babies to learn/or be ready to sleep on their own. I pretty much had to carry my DS for every day sleep until about 3.5 months. This is tough when also caring for a toddler (tiring and hard on the back). But easier than unhappy crying baby.

I used a stretchy cloth sling with very broad material over the shoulders which felt snuggly and spread the weight - you could try like Carryme (sp?) or Close carriers.

At some point around 3.5m I started again trying to put him down awake to go to sleep - I used my own pick up put down method - and it started to work. This was also the start of him going to sleep in the evenings for the rest of the night (with feeds, of course). It was a great relief to have baby-free times during teh day - though he only sleeps for 45 min naps at the mo.

Good luck - remember babies change quite rapidly so new things may work before too long.

hells, we have an appointment scheduled for 9th November, I'm soooo relieved. (and really pinning my hopes on this)

re "wake up potential" - you've made me laugh. yes- barking dogs, screaming kids, car horns, diy enthusiasts, motorbikes, you name it!

acornstew, yes, my back is beginning to suffer. I wake up several times a night with stiff shoulders and arms. Haven't tried a stretchy sling yet (just pouch and a carrier and DS didn't like them), may give it a go. I definitely agree with you that babies do change very rapidly, so am telling myself not to get used to the good or the bad points

duende I also sympathise. My DD (now 7 months) was not easy to get to sleep when younger.
I used to walk for miles with the pram. She would wake up sometimes after 30 mins but sometimes if I kept going she'd fall back to sleep.
I started by getting her to sleep anyway I could - in the pram, she could fall asleep BFing and I'd keep holding her as putting her down would wake her. Anyway I could to help her catch up the sleep debt. I worked on the soothe to sleep within 2 hours of wakeful time principle.
Then when i felt she'd caught up abit I started trying to get her to nap in her cot (maybe at 3/4 months). We did have crying but some days she would sleep in her cot!
Her nap lengths were always irregular but she did start napping at least!
At 5.5 months it was like a switch flicked and she started consistently doing 1-2 hour naps twice a day. This happened just like that, when I felt she wouldn't ever improve her irregular nap times. Now I have the problem that she only likes sleeping in her cot (although she will take short naps in the pushchair or car seat) so I have to try and plan my days to be in the house for naptime!

You are doing your son a great service by actually being concerned about his sleep. I also knew many other babies who would sleep anywhere, anytime. But I think because my baby didn't sleep well I became more in tune with her than I would have and now she does sleep much better (better than babies who sleep anytime,anywhere!) because I put this effort in. Think positive! It will get better

Duende - I turned into an irrational monster at ANYONE who dared make a noise near the pram! Poor things. They were outside after all....but recycling vans, rubbish collectors, people talking too loudly on mobile phones, anyone innocently carrying out building works had to face my look of thunder LOL.

I am ashamed to say after a particularly grueling walk where it took a while to get her to sleep....a pretty little toddler, whopping with glee was met with an icy stare as she woke up DD with her squeals! I feel terrible about it now...but I think I did go a bit mental with it all

Great news about the referral - that is so good.

And as Acornstew & Islandisla point out so rightly - that although it feels so hard now this is a phase - and you will get through it.

Also as Islandisla said I have found with both DS & DD - they are far better sleepers now than some of their friends that were originally the better sleeps...so all this hard work does have some payoff!

I'll stop rambling now - hope you have a better day to day. DO you have a DH to take the strain off at the weekend? My DH used to do the weekend lunchtime walk which was such a blessed relief (don't be tempted to go with them - if you go too your talking to each other will probably keep DS awake and you'll both end up tired!)

In desperation, at about 3 months, I just started co-sleeping DS's long nap every day. Fed him to sleep, then fed him back again every time he woke.

Eventually he got better and by about 5 months was an awesome napper.

It saved my sanity as he was thoroughly crap at night too (and still is fairly rubbish at 11 months).

I've just read this whole post with tears streaming down my face... Duende, I totally know where you're coming from. I also have an 11-week-old (almost 12) DD who basically doesn't sleep much and cries (well, actually, screams blue murder) for a large chunk of 24hrs through sheer exhaustion.

Unfortunately for me, she's also totally crap at evening and night-time sleeping (this seemed to start after she was unwell with colds/coughs/bronchiolitis for the first 10 weeks of her life ), so I currently have no choice but to co-sleep, which is slowly driving me mad as I get really crap quality sleep.

Oh, and I should also mention I have a feisty but lovely 23-month-old daughter, so sleep-deprived mummy

• tantruming toddler + screaming knackered baby is not a good combination really.

Sadly DD2 totally objects to being in the pushchair too, so the walking option isn't feasible for us. I took DD2 to a cranial osteopath yesterday for the first time, and she found lots of things to work on, but in the meantime I was kind of desperately hoping for a magic miracle! Ah well...

Unfortunately the dummy approach didn't work either, so I'm kind of clutching at straws and desperately hoping that like a few of you have said, the passing of time will help things, and somehow in the next few weeks something miraculous will happen . I also felt that I was "owed" a chilled-out baby this time round, as my first was an absolute nightmare who also hated sleep and also had terrible reflux for 9 months... She did eventually improve Anyway, lots of sympathetic hugs to all of you out there who are also trying to live with and love screaming babies who fight against sleep...