I'm running out of patience fast with my 4yr old DD

[MuppetsMuggle]

for the past 3 months she has been a complete nightmare for bedtime. Is perfect during the day except for the normal 4yr old moments, but soon as it comes to bedtime its like a switch in her brain flicks and on comes naughty mode, i'm loosing my patience rapidly. we do the bedtime routine where she has a drink, goes to the loo, I read her a story and she either has a audio story book on or a dvd on which the TV goes on timer for 1/2 hr and when it switches off its off. Now i've not been very well for a long time but been alot worse since March 09, all joints, spinal and muscle related so I have trouble esp at nights getting up and down like a yoyo even more so when I have giddy days.

I've taken toys and privledges away and when i feel like crap most of the time i end up giving in because i can't go up and down like a yoyo. I'm more tired than ever, which is not only medical related but due to DD being a pain in the arse for bed.

Any advice would be appreciated on how I can tackle this. DP isn't here every night and when he is she is so spiteful - due to being tired - as fine when not.

I agree, ditch the TV and audiobooks
bedrooms should be for sleeping
I think I would get annoyed if I was watching something and it just turned off
Try to think of bedtime as a wind down time, TV is definitely too stimulating.
Maybe having a bath would help to calm her down?
I have used routines with my children and they have both been good sleepers.
Something like
bath
drink
bed with a story and a cuddle
If she calls you back, do like others have said, and show no emotion and don't engage with her, just say 'goodnight' in a firm voice
It will be hard at first, but you have to keep doing it and not give in to her demands (easier said than done, I know, but you have to be strong)

I agree with the others, no TV or audio in the bedroom at four. When my daughter was four, I'd let her sit and 'read' her favourite books in bed and play with her toys, and if she was saying she wasn't sleepy or didn't want me to go, I'd say I was going to the loo/the make a cup of tea, and I'd pop my head round the door after, and quite often she would have turned off the light and gone to sleep by then.
This sounds especially stressful for you because you are ill. It's bad enough for the rest of us well! Maybe she's worried about you and doesn't really know it herself, or doesn't want to tell you? Sometimes when kids are frightened for their parents they get angry with them. Have you talked to her reassuringly about your illness and explained it and made sure she realises that it will be OK and you will still be able to be her mum and do stuff and that you won't die or anything? I remembering worrying a lot about my parents when I was quite small.

DS (4) just started doing this at night, updownupdown after going to bed. I worked out eventually that he just wasn't tired enough. Not that I am suggesting she should go to bed later but have you considered that she might not be getting enough physical exercise in the day to tire her out? On the days that we went out or did something, DS would be out like a light so now we make sure that every day he gets a work out,.

DD starts infants in sept and is so ready for it.

We have a routine goes like this:
5:00 dinner
6:00 bath time
7:00 bedtime, which consists of storys and cuddles. Doesn't always have the TV on or an audiobook.

We do alot in the day, but she has been like this when spent the day at preschool which should of been tiring in itself.
We either go swimming, go to the park, go to horizone playcentre, go to staunton park farm, go to leigh park gardens so she can run around.

We went shopping yesterday and spent the rest of the day doing puzzles and craft stuff as wasn't feeling well at all. She plays on the Wii which also tires her and me out lol.

She loves to read and reads books to me and her teddys via the pictures from the book, preschool have said she has a very active imagination. She does alot of stuff indoors for age 6+ as anything below that age was boring her, she can write her alphabet and is learning to read as shes been asking too so we are sounding out words etc.

Maybe i'm not stimulating her brain enough during the day?

She knows about my illness and knows mummy will always be mummy, shes been taught how to use the phone to call 999 if I fall ill with no one else around and to call Daddy and Nanny.

She is going to be tired today as woke up at 8:30 this morning.

sorry if I missed it -what time does she normally wake up?

perhaps a 7 o'clock bedtime is too early for her.

Could iot be more concern r/e your illness. Just with her saying that she was staying up so as to keep you up ? Could be anxiety from her about you. Does she know the extent of it ? Just that 4 is an age where she will be more undertsanding of life / illness etc

agree with the exercise & meant to add, make sure you wake her up early in the morning - try it after you've had your good night's sleep.

get her up, then keep her on the go (as much as you can keep up) with swimming, walking, bike ride. She be begging for bed !

Hope you're feeling better soon..

If she wakes at 8.30 she won't be tired by 7pm. I don't know many four year olds that need more than 13 hours sleep! I think 11 hours is more like it. Just googled and the average need is 10-12 hours.

My four year old has been at pre-school for the past year (including all day, 9 am to 4.15 pm, for the last year) and goes to bed at about 10 pm and wakes up at 8am. Not many of her classmates go to bed before 8.30 pm.

dd1 started doing this just after turning 4 (used to go to bed at 6.30 and be asleep by 7) shes nearly 5 now and last few months I have had to adjust her bedtime routine

Now she goes up about 6.30/7 but by time I've done story etc its nearer 7.30 she is then allowed to look at books or play with her teddies/my little ponies till 8.15 when its a strict lights out (well lamp stays on but she has to lay down and go to sleep) we just found that no matter what we did with her she just isnt tired that early (she gets up anytime from 6.30 to 8 depending how loight the morning is, if I have to work, if dd2 being noisy etc) she will occasionally try it on coming down teh stairs asking for drink, food, saying not tired but we just tell her back in bed and normally adter 3 or 4 times she stays there.

She starts school in September so am hoping that'll tire her out a bit more

I've started to adjust her bedtime to between 8-8:30pm to see if that helps.

Before she would go to sleep between 7 and 7:30 and wake up at about 7:30 when daddy goes to work so i'm awake then but sometimes she has a lay in iykwim.

DD went to my mums yesterday as DP & I had a good friends wedding to go to, and mum said she was shattered throughout the day but tried to keep her awake, she went to bed at 8pm last night practically fell asleep straight away and woke just after 8am this morning.

We are going out this afternoon - well after the F1 anyway so she will be running around and having a good time listening to music etc so i'm hoping if she doesn't go to bed till about 8:30ish she will sleep through tonight!

thanks for all your support, am going to try the things you've all said and see what happens

Oh good, it sounds like she just wasn't tired enough and then you were both getting wound up by this!

OSOTC - I don't think she was tired enough on friday your right. I don't know why its effecting her the rest of the time as she normally is tired from school etc.

Just see how it goes, although I know she is tired now as shes ratty and being naughty

You have to take their 'sleep train' into account. If they miss it, you have to wait until the next one gets into the station. DS will lie in his bed quietly looking at his glow stars until the next one comes along. But DD is just up and down like a yo-yo so it's not worth trying.

DD went to bed at 8:30 last night. we had a bedtime story and by 9pm she was fast asleep and didn't hear a peep out of her till 7:20 this morning - I think mainly cause she heard daddy going to work.

So happy about it. see if it works tonight too lol

Hope it keeps going well, Muppetsmuggle,but just found this thread and wanted to add my experiences. DD1 is also 4, starting school in September and has just had some visits. She was a rubbish sleeper when younger but has been good for 18m or more. So it was a horrible shock when she suddenly started not settling at night without us, and waking crying for us in the night. Like your DD she won't get out of bed, just lies there and screams. After weeks of trying to persuade her to go to sleep on her own I have started sitting outside her room MN-ing or working on my laptop while she goes to sleep (am there now). I feel in one way this is a retrograde step, but it seems to be working (tho' it is a pain, and I don't have your health issues to take into consideration). The main thing I wanted to mention, though, was that I did manage to have a quiet chat with her about it when she was calm and (she's very articulate) she basically said "the older you get, the more you understand, and the more there is to worry about". So I think for her it's a growing awareness of the world around her and the bad things in it, both real and fictional (fires and monsters feature heavily), plus anxiety - coupled with excitement - about school. Maybe something similar is going on with your DD's emotional development? Lots of sympathy - it's hard to cope with, isn't it.

thanks Dotty2 - yeah I totally agree with what your DD said its along the same lines as what my DD said.

Last night we went out and we got home about 9:30 she went to bed and went straight to sleep and didn't hear a peep out of her till 8:15 this morning.