No Cry Sleep Solution - Am I wasting my time?

[aubergenie]

I?m feeling a bit desperate today, so this is a long one. Sorry.

I?ve got a 7 and a half month old DS who has never been a good sleeper. At first we managed by co-sleeping, sometimes full-time, sometimes part-time, but it ended up doing my back in so for the last couple of months was mostly full-time in his Amby nest. He seems to be unable to sleep for more than 3 hours at a time. He usually manages 3 hours immediately after bedtime mostly waking every 1-2 hours after that. He wakes on average 6 times a night.

I?m going back to work in 6 weeks so I need to address the problem and I decided to try the NCSS because Elizabeth Pantley?s approach appeals to my parenting style. I?ve been doing it for about 12 days now but am feeling more tired than when I started. I don?t feel safe to drive and I?m really tearful (I have also had a rotten cold, I?ve just got my periods back and had a massive blocked duct in my breast this week, which I know doesn?t help).

On the plus side, I?ve been religiously following the Pantley pull off method, and he?s no longer rooting for the breast every time he wakes. We?ve also moved him to a cot instead of his Amby nest, which he was getting too big for.

On the minus side, his night-wakings have not reduced at all and because I?m trying not to feed him each time he wakes, he?s awake for longer each time. I?m rocking him to sleep, transferring him to his cot, retreating when I think he?s asleep, getting back into bed, just closing my eyes and he wakes up again and the whole cycle continues repeatedly. Added to this, ds has had a cold too this week, which I know is not helping. He also seems to have been teething for ever, but still hasn?t got any teeth!

Anyway, has anyone actually had any success with this method? I know it?s not meant to be a quick fix, but might feel more optimistic if I could see some light at the end of the tunnel. I fully expect to have to feed him at least once in the night as we're doing BLW and he's still not eating huge volumes.

Lots of other people I know have done ccing with quite fast results. I?ve never liked the idea, but I?m beginning to wonder whether I?m a bleeding-heart liberal who just needs to toughen up.

aubergenie I'm sorry I've not done NCSS, we tried quite early on to crack DS's sleep and thankfully he sleeps quite well now.

I did a few things which I think helped him sleep better on his own:

• When I fed him at night I would always put him in his cot awake, or if he fell asleep I would say "goodnight" loud enough to stir him.
• Then I decided a time limit which I thought I would be comfortable leaving him to cry - which was 2 minutes and so when I left his room if he cried I would wait 2 mins before going back in.
• Then if I KNEW he was fed/clean/right temp etc I wouldn't pick him up but instead sit next to him shh-patting so he wouldn't feel abandoned but knew it was time to sleep IYSWIM?
• Once he stopped crying I would leave the room and start the 2 minutes again.

For me this was my comfort zone as I didn't want to do full on CC. You need to decide what you are comfortable/happy with and then stick to it - no matter what method you use I think consistency is the key. Good luck and HTH!

Thanks ever so much for replying Chocorange. I do think you're right about being consistent. Ds and I were still not 100% yesterday, so I brought him into bed with me last night just to get some sleep, and I feel so much better about things today.

I'm going to carry on with the NCSS. We did see some improvements before we both got sick, so I'm going to stick with it for a while and see how it goes.

Good luck aubergenie I hope it works for you.

OMG, are you actually me in two month's time in a weird time slip thing? You could be describing my DS at the moment (he's 5.5 months).

We've been doing NCSS for about 6 weeks and I dunno whether it's that or just age that's made a difference but he is getting very very sloooowly better.

DS can settle himself now and naps brilliantly so I guess it's had some impact. He's still pretty rubbish at night though and I'm back to work in six weeks so am beginning to get scared!

I'm going to give him until he's 9 months to start getting better and if he's still waking lots then I think I'll probably be deperate enough to abandon my morals and try CC

I really hope things get better for you soon.

I'm glad it's not just me feralgirl! Obviously I'm sorry that you're going through the same thing, but it's nice to know someone else is going through it as well.

It is a slow process isn't it. And Elizabeth Pantley makes that very clear, but it doesn't help when you're desperate.

I feel like I can cope with the lack of sleep while it's just him and me at home, but the thought of having to be a coherent work person is, frankly, terrifying at the moment.

I really hope things improve for you too!

Please remember that this stage will not go on forever! I had a tough time with DC1 constantly waking and tried Baby Whisperer which helped and NCSS but also helped me settle with a routine. I have to say though, the thing that made the most difference was taking DC1 to see a cranial osteopath.

DC1 was 9lb 4oz at birth and we had some problems during delivery, she didn't really sleep well from birth (I know that now as DC2 is much easier to settle!) but we got by with a mixture of co-sleeping and lots of night feeds. I was at my wits end - felt that sick and constantly exhausted.

The cranial osteopath was amazing and much more useful than any book! DC1 was all "scrunched up" and I watched her literally unfold as she relaxed during her treatment. She had about 4 sessions (first was free consultation) and it changed our lives. I continued to settle her to sleep by patting her back but once she went to sleep, she generally stayed asleep - BLISS!!!

Not sure if this will help you but it may be worth a try?

Noperfectmum - Thanks for replying. It's funny you should mention the CO, as I was just talking to dp today about going back to ours.

I've noticed that one of the things that wakes ds is painful wind. Like you, we had some problems at the birth and ds's digestion was never quite right. The CO really helped him when he was smaller (he'd been back to back and squashed up) but I think it could be time for another visit and see whether it helps.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Good luck!

I still settle DC2 in my arms (14mths) until he's just about ready for sleep and then transfer him to his cot. Hold my hand on him and he sleeps through, so don't think you have to rush them to fall asleep on their own. listen to your instincts (assuming you're not too exhausted to hear them!)

Elizabeth Pantley does say at the beginning of the book that her methods will take a month or two to work, and that that is the choice you make - CC for a quick fix or 1-2 months work without leaving to cry

(Have just started reading it and got distracted by the Politics of Breastfeeding - oops - but need to do sleep logs anyway before I can go onto the next stage)

It took a month for it to work for us - her version of gradual retreat. We did it at 6.5 months. However she regressed at 10 months with holidays etc..., at 12 months we did a very gentle CC described in Tanta Byron book, where you go in 5,10,15 mins to reassure but never let them cry for more than 30mins feed or rock or whatever to sleep and try again next time - it worked in 2 nights and 1.5 years later DD has always slept through the night.

Elizabeth Pantley's method works for some but not for all. I did the Pantley Pulloff for over a year and it didn't make the slightest difference. The ONLY thing which is working with DS's (2.3yrs) sleep is TIME. What you describe was him at the same age and CONTINUOUSLY until 2 years. The cause was not nursing to sleep (hence no benefit to EP's methods) but rather development.

It all went to shit at 5.5 mth when he started crawling/sitting/pulling up/nursery all in one week. He was initially waking half hourly, then hourly, and yes, I was working full-time. I spent a year telling myself "he'll sleep through when..." Insert walking/talking/running/jumping/sentences/shapes/colours/numbers/the alphabet/molars through/canines through/2yr molars/nappy free at night... but NONE of it has made a difference except time. Now he has one quick wee on potty around 11pm, wakes around 1:30 to come in with me and goes through until morning.

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry to hear it didn't work for you Ches - it must be really tough to deal with while you're working as well.

I think the not feeding to sleep thing is beginning to work, but he's been poorly for a while now so he's bound to be really unsettled. I'm going to stick at it so I feel I've given it my best shot and see how things are in a week or so when he's better.

I put my 5mo DS to sleep in his cot, by my bed. When he wakes for his early morning feed I bring him into bed. He then sleeps in with us and feeds again in the morning.

I've found this works really well, I get more sleep for two reasons - firstly because we can just fall asleep in the bed together, I don't have to get out of bed and put him to sleep (waking both of us up in the process!). Also I've found he sleeps at least an hour or so longer in the mornings if he's in bed with us.

You say you used to co-sleep. If there there any way you can address the back problem? If so would you consider having him in bed with you again or is this unrealistic?

Lowrib - I love co-sleeping, but having done it again for a couple of nights recently when ds was really poorly I found that the shoulder problem I've been having has flared up again. The other issue is that dp doesn't really sleep if ds is in the bed because he's terrified of rolling over and squashing him. He's been sleeping on the sofa most nights for nearly 8 months now and would really like to come back in the bed with me (we don't have a spare room).

What was working quite well until we both got sick was my 5 o'clock rule - I'd do as much as I could to keep him in his own bed until 5am, then bring him in with me for a couple of extra hours kip. That could be a good compromise, I think.

I'm really not keen on the idea of CC, but perhaps like you I am a bit of a "bleeding-heart liberal" Even so, I'd try to solve the other obvious issues first.

So firstly, is there a way you can co-sleep without your partner having to sleep on the sofa?
My DP is also scared of squashing our LO too (if I'd had my way he'd be in with us all night).

I sleep with my DS facing out, so DP can't squash him - but to do this safely it means we're quite far over into the bed, so he's no where near the edge. (It helps that the bed is kingsize). My DP often asks how someone so little can take up so much room but at least he can sleep OK like this. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when my DS learns to roll from back to front though. I've just starting reading Three in a Bed though so hoping I might find an answer there!

Secondly, it seems the cold is getting in the way, so maybe you need to just get through this bit, and then reassess what works or not once you're both well again?

Also, about the teething - what are you doing to relieve it? Is it working or might something else be better? Is this an avenue which might be worth exploring?

And, what about expressing some milk so that your partner can share some of the night feeding?

Finally - forgive me, this might be a stupid question - but what's wrong with feeding to sleep?

HTH

Hi Lowrib, Three in a bed is a lovely book. It made me feel so much better about co-sleeping when so many other people seemed to be against it.

There's nothing "wrong" with feeding to sleep. In fact I think it's a really lovely thing. The problem for me is that my ds had become completely reliant on it as a way of falling asleep, so I'd find myself feeding him 6 or more times in the night. He was waking up, being angry becuase he wasn't asleep and rooting around for my breast straight away. I expect to have to feed him at least once in the night, but I can't sustain this constant waking once I'm back at work, so I have to find a way to gently help him resettle himself when he wakes.

I think you're absolutely right about the cold. It seems to be finally easing off. I'm not sure what else I can do about teething - we're using bomjela, teething powders and, if things are really bad, calpol. I'm going to the osteopath today about my back so I'll have a chat with her and see if she thinks she can help.

The NCSS is very clear that it's not a quick fix solution, so I think I'm wanting faster results than can be reasonably achieved. I definitely need to give it more time.