She wakes the moment we put her down in her cot - and she's seven bloody months old

[DitaVonCheese]

Approaching the end of our collective tethers here. DD is more or less refusing to sleep in her cot at all - been doing a bedtime routine for the past week and a half as follows: take upstairs, say goodnight to the world, close the curtains, put on her grobag, read three books, sing lullaby, feed to sleep. She drops off in ten min. Then I start the long process of putting her down, picking up screaming baby, feeding back to sleep, putting down, picking up screaming baby, rocking to sleep, putting down, picking up screaming baby. At some point during this she starts frantically fighting sleep because she knows she'll be put down in her cot. Eventually we crack and she comes downstairs to spend the evening cooing in her chair before being fed to sleep down here and then carried upstairs. She then sleeps in her cot until she first wakes up, when she comes into bed with us.

Before this, she would nap in her chair all evening then go upstairs same time we did, but I want our evenings back! She naps downstairs in her chair. Put her down in her cot briefly today while I got dressed and immediately started crying. Argh. It's not as though we've ever done any CC or anything that would put her off her cot!

New plan is to start feeding to sleep downstairs again, then eventually moving her upstairs when we're in a pattern of going to sleep at the same time each night. And I'm looking at Ambys on eBay again in case that would be better (supported rather than flat on her back). Any other ideas? She was fine when she was a little baby! Meh!

we have an amby and find it great, but one thing i do notice is that dd much prefers to be on her side than on her back. we wrap her up then plonk her in and bounce her.

what is dd in when you put her down? are her arms in at her side? i loathe grobags for their arm flappiness, so do my children.

sooooo...she falls asleep in your arms?
Can you put her down awake (but really sleepy) and try to settle her without feeding/carrying her? Stroking cheek, soft singing, patting etc so there is still comfort and closeness.
I think it is the difference in feeling of goingto sleep nice and snuggly/sucking then 'suddenly' being 'alone' in a non-snuggly environment. So to try and reduce the difference between those 2 would be good perhaps.
DS would not settle on his back at all. He was tummy all the way (and turned over by me once properly asleep), so side might be worth a try,..is more cosy too (imo)

My other advice is...this too shall pass...just keep trying something and eventually she will move into a new phase!

You have two options. (1) Is hold her for 5-10 min after she falls asleep to make sure she's in a deep sleep. Also minimise the vertical distance she moves through on the transfer. (2) Pick up/Put down to get her used to falling asleep in her cot. Good luck!

I would second trying to get her in cot whilst awake, getting them to fall asleep by themselves is great skill which you will always be thankful they have! I have 2 boys and have tried the following, put a chair in the room and wait until they fall asleep, music cds, story cds or low volume radio. Also agree that both ds's always found it hard to settle on backs at this age. Good luck!

Hey Dita! I hope you had a better night last night. I don't have a lot of advice as I was up with dd 7 times last night so obviously not a great deal working for me.

Have you looked at the Baby Whisperer techniques? DD is only 14 weeks so we use shush/pat which gets her off to sleep in minutes. Swaddle her, lie her on her side and make a loud shushing sound whilst patting her back. Her eyelids start dropping in seconds. For older babies she recommends pick up/put down which I would use (I don't have the heart for cc). There was a post about it on here yesterday (I lurk around the sleep board quite a bit now).

We have an Amby and it is good for being able to just reach out and bounce it to get DD back to sleep but I wouldn't say she wakes up less in it.

Aitch, I didn't know you could swaddle in an Amby. Do your DCs not get too warm?

Dita did you get the thank you I left you on the BF board?

Oh Ches suggested pu/pd. I also agree with Ches's idea of minimising the vertical distance (think I have posted that somewhere else before..)

Sorry mystified by title, are babies meant to sleep without any fuss from, er, seven months?! Tell me that's a joke - that's not how it works, unless you are very, very lucky.

Mind you my second did, but then at about 8 months he began teething and it all went down the pan!

It's simply not fair to expect it - on you or her. The moment ytou stop expecting it you will feel a whole lot better. Babies DO this.

Ok some possible causes: teething, therefore she is in pain and being clingy. I don't think it's fair to ignore this need for your comfort. Could you put her to sleep in a bouncy chair or similar near you, downstairs, then move it to your room/her room later when you go up?
Seven months is tiny to be away from your parents imo, although I am a softy liberal co sleeping type.

Secondly - might sound obvious, but WIND is a big culprit especially if crying starts after a feed...hold her up on your shoulder till a burp materialises, then put her down (apols if you already do this) - it can really make a huge difference to length of sleep.

hope this helps a little bit. It makes me sad when I hear comments such as 'I want our evenings back!' because well it's just so unrealistic for most of us, don't want to be patronising but did you think it would all stop being hard after 6 months? Also do ask yourself if it's YOU who needs free evenings or whether you're under pressure from another person whom you feel obliged to put before your baby.

It's only when i looked at this and realised I was putting my ex first, that he became an ex and I dealt better with my child. I'm happy to be dictated to (to a degree) by a small person - he wasn't.

I have to say I totsally disagree with IF. We spent a long time encouraging DD to go to sleep on her own. We also had an amby and from about three weeks would do a feed, bath, feed, bed by seven routine. By about four months she was mostly quiet throughout the evening and by seven, going to bed pretty happily. I only have experience of one baby but in this case having our evenings means a huge amount to us. It's up to you but I would try to do as the other posters have suggessted and put down awake but sleepy and let her find sleep on her own. Not easy tho, good luck!

with my dd i did all the patting, rocking and feeding to sleep inspired by threads on here etc, and at 3 next week dd has only just started to settle herself to sleep and she still wakes every night at least once

so i taught ds to settle himself to sleep, no controlled crying but would put him in his cot awake to beggin with i had a mobile now he has just the music box and a few soft toys, although he does need patting some nights he goes in hois cot appily and also wakes once a night but he is only just 1 at this age dd was a nightmare to settlqe and repeatedly up

Oranges, I respect your right to differ! However I'd like to ask how you managed it! Did you have to leave her to cry very much?

Hey, we let ds sleep on me til 6 months in evening then decided to put him to bed in our (admittedly low and enormous) bed til I come and join him. Is much easier to settle him lying down IMO (have nightmares fond memories of trying to settle dd in her cot for ages...). I often lie quite close to him with one hand on front and one on back... And mostly he sleeps well all evening. occasionally wakes and needs me to snuggle him/rock him/feed him - last resort- back to sleep.

Maybe a nice compromise?

(PS the sleep goes in peaks and troughs too with teething and development - so you can get a fab month then a crap month. This is why really I can't be arsed with any of that sleep training malarky til they are old enough to understand it )

i swaddled both of mine in a loose-knitted shawl, sure. i didn't realise you weren't supposed to, lol.

oranges, I agree with you. Have 2 children, both had bath, story, feed, bed at 7pm routine since about 12 weeks old. They are now 8 months, and 3 years and both settle themselves really well to sleep by 7.30ish. Our 3 year old is rarely unsettled at night (only if ill etc), and our 8 month old usually sleeps til atleast 5.30am without any probs. I have always tried to put them down awake and this has worked for us. When they hit the 6 month separation anxiety stage I stayed in the room with them at first then slowly backed out, still talking to them quietly until I was out and they were settled. Took about a week for them to realise they were safe when I left! Yes we have our bad nights with teeething, colds etc but they have cuddles and reassurance when needed and soon get back into their routine.

I hear you Dita, had similar 'problem' with DD with bedtime settling and night wake ups...it's really wearing and exhausting for you and for your baby too.

Agree with what others have said about putting her down awake, then if (when) she cries, use something like Pick Up Put Down or gentle shusshing and rubbing her tummy in her cot.

We did this with DD who was previously being fed/rocked to sleep and consequently would wake on going in her cot (and many times in the night) as every time she went into a light sleep or woke she didn't know how to settle back off to sleep.

Took two nights of lots of picking up and putting down (with VERY minimal crying), and now we're sorted. Bed at 7pm and she settles herself to sleep with a few minutes of shuffling about and talking to herself. Then one night wake up for a feed, then through til morning.

Sorry but have not read all the replies.....

However, my advice is NOT to put baby to bed in cot asleep. She has not learned to see herself off to sleep and now she is more aware and alert when you put her down she is waking up!

To break the pattern try bathing, story and bed.

I would do all of this upstairs, in her bedrrom (except for bathing!!). She needs to learn to go to sleep on her own.

Once she is comfortable put her in her cot, say 'night night' or whatever you want to be your cue for night time. Go back as many times needed to settle. But try NOT to pick her up again, unless she is really unsettled/upset. Go back as many times as needed saying 'night night'. Don't put lights on and so forth (or be tempted by night light).

Over the course of a few days she should get used to the idea that this is where she sleeps etc. I would not let her nod off downstairs etc .

We did this with both or DC and they now are both in bed asleep by 7.30pm every night. We always respond if they cry and go and offer reassurance but with both (aged 4 and 1) we have not ever let them sleep downstairs. If DC are unwell our approach is slightly different. But this is certainly not CC or anything as always respond when the child cries out by providing reassurance......

I think my DD would prefer to be swaddled in it. I might give it a try for her naps today. Thanks Aitch

Love how saying 'night night' and then letting them learn how to go to sleep alone always sounds so simple...

IME they cry cos you're not there, so you then ignore for the allotted time (2 minutes on the clock never felt so long) and feel dreadful as they don't really get what's going on. Then they cry more, and get up and wander round the cot looking for you. Then they fall over and bang their head at which point you go in and cuddle them, and give up and feed them and they go to sleep looking all cute in your arms and you think, gosh, you are growing big so quickly, soon you won't do this anymore - let's not wish our time away, hey...

IF, did pretty much the same as Freebster. Have to say the Amby made it much easier as could rock her to almost asleep then leave. Was in the room, or hovering outside, certainly didn't leave to cry much, am too much of a softie for all that. BUT didn't leap in for every squeak!

Right, i'm getting an Amby next time

(got one. in the loft now. was ok, ds likes to sleep on his front/side. couldn't settle him asleep it - had to kind of fling him in, forced him to self-settle a bit though )

Good luck tonight Dita!

Oops, sorry - posted late last night, then went to bed, then out all today

Will try to reply to everyone ...

Aitch She's in a grobag and arms are up by her ears, kind of (bent at the elbow). Actually, last night she slept pretty well, and for part of that I was just cuddling her so she was on one side, so perhaps side-sleeping would help. I have a gadgety-thing I bought in the early days to keep her on her side, so will maybe try that.

tigana Yep, she falls asleep in our arms. Trying to put her down awake in her cot results in patting, shushing, stroking, singing to, etc a screaming baby.

ches Generally she'll fall asleep and I'll hold her for 5-10 min or sometimes more - partly because I'm usually reading and got wrapped up in my book, partly just to delay the inevitable. Put her down and PING - awake, screaming baby.

Hey Lulu I don't have the heart for CC either - ain't going to happen Ssh-pat sounds worth a go, even though she's a mammoth 7 month old these days. I am relieved to hear that the Amby isn't a miracle-worker because I read such rave reviews but can't really justify the cost at the moment! I did see your thank you and so glad MN and Tiktok could help - fab news

InternationalFlight Apologies for confusing title - I just meant that I know a lot of little babies tend to wake up as soon as they are put in a cot, because it's new and strange and scary, whereas DD was always fine with it (none of that waiting for her to get into deep sleep for us) but is suddenly reacting as though we're trying to kill her or something. I am also an utter softy - co-sleeping and she usually sleeps in a chair downstairs with us - it's that that I'm trying to get her out of the habit of really. Getting our evenings back - I do understand what you mean - guess I'm just getting a bit of cabin fever by this point as we are completely and utterly unable to do anything in the evening at all at the moment. Yes, I knew everything would change when I had a baby, but I did expect to get the occasional night off. As it is, we've only been out once since she was born, for about two hours. I tried to leave her at my mum's last weekend for a couple of hours so that I could have a girly night in with my gran (for her 90th birthday) but DD screamed until they came and joined us, so I had to end up getting a back massage whilst breastfeeding (which was nice actually ). It's a close friend's birthday this weekend and we can't go, so I feel lame. And there are some friends that we really need to have round for dinner because they gave us masses of baby stuff and only asked for dinner in return, so I'm embarrassed we haven't asked them yet, but at the moment it could be dinner or it could be watching me hold a screaming child. So it is kind of outside pressure but also partly I could do with a break, just one night. Guess I just feel like I look after her by myself all day, so need a break in the evening even if it's just to go into the other room and do a bit of sewing or something (filling in the bloody baby record book!) rather than holding a baby and watching repeats on Dave. But I do definitely come down on the attachment parenting side of things, so maybe I should just suck it up.

Oranges and freebster we did have a routine of sorts in the evening - go upstairs, get into grobag, dim lights, feed to sleep - but DD started just dropping off downstairs instead (or staying awake all evening instead).

Huge thanks for all the replies - hope I've managed to reply to most and well done anyone still reading

Last night I tried two new things, and they seemed to go quite well ... First she tends to get moved into our bed (from sidecar cot) when she first wakes up and then feeds on and off all night. Last night I did give her a quick feed but then cuddled rather than fed her back to sleep and then moved her back into her cot after a little while. So she woke once, quite soon after we went to bed (midnightish ) and that was it for a very long time (light next time she woke, but didn't check the time). So pretty sure that she slept through and in her own cot! Secondly, I woke her at 8.30 am - we are generally late to bed and late to rise in this house Tonight was supposed to be bath night but she has been out like a light (downstairs, in her chair, but asleep nonetheless) since shortly after 6 pm. And I have both hands free to type!

Thank you for replying, thank you for letting me drone on, and sorry it's so mammoth

helps sometimes to get it down sometimes, makes you clearer about how you actually feel...

at sleeping through

Hee - sorry Umlellala I agree with everything you've said She does seem to prefer our bed so perhaps I should try settling her there as a halfway measure - just worry because it's softer/she could go off the edge (not likely but still)/etc.

Btw she woke up screaming ten minutes into my luxurious long rudely truncated bubble bath about 45 min ago and I've been trying to calm her down ever since ...

You have mentioned she likes side-sleeping. ds2 (8 months) didn't really start to settle until I put him on his side at about 7 months (didn't feel comfortable doing so until then with the SIDS advice). After he has had his feed I pop him in the cot and roll him to face me and have 1 hand on his upper most shoulder and the other arm draped over his bottom and up his back so that I can gently pat him with my other hand. He is therefore fairly snuggled. If he is calm I leave the room so that he can settle himself. If he needs help settling that I pat his back until he is calm - sometimes that might be until he is asleep.