Mums - especially AP mums - how do/would you manage bedtime with a pre-schooler and a newborn?

[nomoresleep]

Hello all - I'm new to mumsnet, though have lurked for years....

I've just had a second baby and am struggling with DD's bedtime. She is nearly 4 and we co-sleep. I've always cuddled her to sleep - she's never gone to sleep by herself and bedtimes have always been a very snuggly, lovely quiet time with stories and then lying down together till she's asleep. Enter a windy, snorty and crying DS (he's 4 weeks old) and things are not quite the same!!

I've tried feeding DS whilst reading DD's stories & cuddling DD to sleep, but this only works if I can manipulate the day so that DS is ready to feed when DD is read to sleep, which is completely beyond me for at least half the time!

I've tried timing DD's bedtime for when DS is asleep but this rarely works too - he is unsettled, windy and not very sleepy during the evenings so is rarely fast asleep when DD needs to go to bed. This is also why just holding him or having him in the bed is hopeless - he wriggles around and cries a lot which prevents DD from listening to stories and then nodding off...

What does everyone else do? I realize that we're a bit unusual to be cuddling DD to sleep at her age and that mostly it's only the hippy AP types who do this, but surely everyone tries to have at least some quiet and cuddly time with their children at bedtime, to read stories etc. How do you do this with a wriggly, crying baby to deal with as well? And are there any attachment-parenting types out there who've managed this kind of bedtime dilemma?

Do you have a dp who could take over dd's bedtime. Our ds1 is 3.7 and still likes someone with him while he goes to sleep, so since ds2 arrived, dh has put ds1 to bed while i put ds2 to bed. Occasionally dh is awake overnight so it gets a bit interesting then but generally it works well.

It will also get easier as your ds gets older and a bit more settled. I think those first few weeks with a newborn and older dc's are a bit of a nightmare anyway.

DP is fabulous and has promised to try to get home early two nights each week to help, but he normally gets home too late for bedtime. I've contemplated pushing back DDs bedtime till 8 or 8.30 so that DP is home, but I think that might make her too tired....

I hope you're right about it getting easier! I sometimes wonder how anyone copes with two kids!!

Perhaps have a slightly different routine on different nights to make the most of your dp being home (or not) and weekend nights etc.

So perhaps once or twice a week your dd could have a slightly later bedtime. On the one or two nights he is home early perhaps he could try and focus on your little ds and you focus on your dd? (or the other way round depending on what dd prefers).

I don't practise ap, but I did struggle with this type of practicality when we had a similar age gap between our dds. For the first few months we muddled through the bed and bath routine.

Our dd2 was a bit more of an unsettled baby than dd1 (I think) and she did have a dummy from when she was a few weeks old. That was just what worked for me, obviously. I know people have strong feelings about dummies.

I had always cuddled (or rocked, or bfed) dd to sleep and had a similar dilemma when ds came along (we still co-sleep)

I have tried various methods and to be honest, it took a fair few months to find a pattern that we were all happy with (not least because things change so quickly in the first year and ds' patterns kept changing!) Generally though, if dc1 isn't asleep when you're trying to settle dc2, try to have an activity lined up (for example, I found that dd flicking through a book while I was settling ds was good, or even putting a gentle dvd on for her to watch). Took a while to get into it, but dd did slip into the pattern of reading a book or watching telly while I settle ds, then I can concentrate on her afterwards (we are all in the same room and I just kept telling her that ds needs to go to sleep, so we need to be quiet - there are times when she's not in the mood and will run around, but then she's only 3 and does pretty well most of the time).

Sorry, not much help. It really is a case of continuous assessment of people's personalities, needs, priorities and trying to find the best all round compromise (in my experience)

Thanks for the advice everyone.

USCC - I tried your suggestion tonight and put DD in front of a DVD whilst I rocked DS to sleep and then we all went up to bed together. She thought it was a real treat!! I definitely see that getting DS to sleep first is the best plan... but the problem is that it's hard to get DS to sleep - he's very windy and unsettled in the evenings and I think it's developing into full-blown colic.... did you ever have this issue or did your DS settle easily?

I think a dummy is a very pragmatic suggestion! I wish I didn't have to use one, but I went through no end of anguish when DD was a baby because she didn't behave in the way the baby books said she should behave and I've promised myself that, this time around, I'll just do whatever works....

Thanks again for all your help

Mmm, that is tough. I was very lucky in that ds was/is a very easy baby to settle (although dd was very windy and colicky, so I know how hard that can be!) I think you just have to play around with it and see which option works best.

One other idea to maybe try (which we did tonight - had forgotten this earlier when I posted) was that dd has a favourite monkey toy thing and she often likes to settle him while I'm settling ds. So she'll sit next to me and bf him while I'm bfing ds, and then she'll rock him while I'm rocking ds etc. (This is something she initiated - I did not go out of my way to teach my toddler how to bf a monkey )

Dummy could be a good idea. Had no idea that dummies were bad but dd was a thumb sucker (and still is) and my philosophy has always been similar to yours - do whatever works. If it gives ds comfort and helps, then go for it

Oh dummies are one of those discussions on mnet (not always, but sometimes. )

Yes, do whatever works, these few weeks are the toughest (and the most lovely in some ways with a tiny beautiful newborn when one is not crying with knackeredness).

Lol at bf a monkey. I often tell people (truthfully) that when I first met the dh of one of my friends he was bf a (toy) hedgehog. He got right into the spirit of an
NCT bf session.

Ahh, ok, thanks

Agree, the first year weeks and months are tough and an adjustment period. Coffee and chocolate got me through and still does

at bf a hedgehog, that's brilliant, good for him!

Thanks again for the advice so far.....suggestion of getting DD a toy to feed/settle is a really good one....

Have been keeping DD up whilst I wait for DH to come home or DS to settle but it's now got to the point where she is so knackered that she is spending her afternoons sobbing on the sofa!! I have changed tack and am now trying to put her to bed at 5pm when DS tends to be asleep...and I'm then spending 3 hours feeding/trying to get DS to settle... sometimes works and sometimes doesn't...definitely agree about chocolate getting you through. I'm eating my bodyweight in it every day.

Is anyone else having a nightmare with getting two crap sleepers to bed? I can't really see a way out of this at the moment!