Help my friend - severe sleeping and night terror issues with a 2 year old

[ChairmumMiaow]

My friend has a 2 year old with real sleeping issues which are tearing her marriage apart.

The only way they get any sleep is for him to be BF to sleep, then to spend the evening on somebodys lap. He generally sleeps well when his mum goes to bed (they co-sleep so he helps himself) but the evenings are a real pain.

If he is left after he goes to sleep he wakes after 45 minutes and gets so worked up if he is alone that it often takes them hours to get him back to sleep, so most of the time it doesn't seem worth it for them - and when they try it just seems hard.

Added to this he has night terrors - very vivid ones where he shouts about the crocodiles biting him. I think this makes things worse as if they try to leave him on his own at bedtime (they have tried everything going, including CC at one point) he cries about being scared. He's very vocal and can explain himself very well, which makes things very hard for him when he wakes up and says he doesn't want to be alone because he's frightened.

They're at the end of their tethers, but they need some time to themselves so they have agreed to try to get him, slowly, into his own room - starting with trying to get him to sleep alone in their bed during the evening. He's got like this as my friend has been constantly ill since she got pregnant (including a CS scar that didn't heal properly for more than 6 months and now she has a heart issue and arthritis at only 25). Everything has been very hard for her and she's often taken the path of least resistant with a very clever and quite difficult child. When she's well she tries to get him back onto the right track, but its understandably hard.

Can anyone help?

They need professional help! Have a friend who had really good results with Millpond.

well i would start by telling her that it's really, really ok to do what works. she shouldn't feel pressured into getting him into his own bed unless it's what SHE wants to do.
I only say that because sometimes it's pressure from other people that makes you think you have to change things

obv if she is committed to this cos it's what she wants then that's fab
i would start with the night terrors.
we had some experience with this recently with ds2 and I read online that you can overcome it by waking them before they have the terror.
the terrors tend to happen at a fairly regular time usually, so what you do is just wake the child about an hour before it would normally happen. this disrupts the sleep cycle and stops the terror occurring. it worked for ds2!

once that is sorted she'll be able to figure out what she wants to do re: getting him into his own room.
it's worth her buying the toddler version of the no-cry sleep solution as that has great ideas of things to use as positive sleep cues and stuff like that.
then she can start by feeding him to sleep in her bed and maybe doing a gradual withdrawal method or something?

Unfortunately they absolutely can't afford to pay anyone. Their DS has been to the doctors regularly about this as it can affect his day to day life very badly. He was prescribed sedatives at one point but they were very reluctant to give them. He's currently on melatonin but that only has a small effect (helps him get to sleep a bit more easily)

thisisyesterday - thanks, she already has every sleep book going.

She knows that its ok to do what she needs to to get him to sleep, but sometimes everything they can do still seems to be not enough. She doesn't have enough support from her husband and he is now so stressed (and depressed) by everything that has happened since she got pregnant that he blames his DS for basically ruining his life. Its very sad and I think it is making the sleeping problems worse. Its a vicious cycle and I guess I just want to try to do something practical to help them

Good god, I thought you must be someone who knows me when I initially looked at your post! DS is 2.8 and literally started this week having nightmares about a crocodile chasing him and wanting to bite him. He sounds very like my DS, but our situation is nowhere near as bad. I was going to post about the terrors thing though, that's really interesting advice from thisisyesterday as my DS1 is waking at the same time every night as well.

Sounds like a terrible situation, I hope they can get some help with it.

How about buying this book?

No cry sleep solution

I have never personally used it but a lot of Mumsnetters have. She has a gentle approach to getting DCs to sleep in their own bed and through the night. Worth a go?

The first step is to realise that a high need child will not destroy a good marriage. It may make both parents miserable if they don't get away from time-to-time, but in and of itself, a child who needs his parents doesn't cause divorce.

As their friend, what you can do is offer to baby sit for an evening or an entire night. Do it in their home (offer yours if they can't afford a hotel) and assure your friend that while both you and her DS may possibly be miserable, you'll both be fine. Chances are you won't both be miserable, though, because children are much easier for other people than for their parents.

I suggest your friend work on the issues separately instead of seeking a wonder cure. I find if you break your sleep issues down, you're able to see progress in each step rather than descending into disillusioned misery because a year later your child still wakes 4 times a night.

She should probably get a professional diagnosis of night terrors. The difference between night terrors and nightmares is that the child has no memory of the night terror whereas will remember a nightmare. Night terrors are distressing for the parents, but not for the child (once the event is over). I would say that if your friend's DS is afraid to sleep on his own because of something he remembers, it's not a night terror.

My dd has night terrors, from quite young like this lo, and yes they are horrible, so completely sympathise.

sleep... well....
if he is a bright child, explanation and reasoning are worth a go- he can understand by now that just because a parent is not in bed with him, it does not mean he has been abandoned, and that they are close by, and he is safe.
Could a 'prop' be used- a special (new, probably!) cuddly he chooses to be his focus/protector when he goes to bed? So when he wakes up that is there, and he is comforted by that a little? Perhaps (don;t know about light issues though) a soft light could be left on so that mum can be in the same room (reading, doing admin, listening to ipod, whatever) so that when he wakes- she isn't in bed with him, but he can understand she is close by. This could be like a form of gradual retreat so that initially she is in same room, then just outside it, then next room, down stairs etc etc. Emphasis on 'what a big boy' he is by having his own bed shouldn't be underestimated either. Children all want to grow up quickly, because they want to emulate their parents.

Stopping feeding to sleep... change the routine- he needs to brush his teeth after his milk for a start. Maybe after his milk- teeth, story, then soft music- something like classic fm's music for babies (which we used with my dd for months) very low lighting, maybe him lying in bed being stroked or patted softly to help him relax and feel close to parents. Then- say goodnight, and give him a chance to settle himself. He will cry. It will be hard. Leave it a minute, go back to him, reassure him, show him love, then leave again. They will have to do this many, many, many times, but he will get it. Some children need to cry themselves to sleep- its called a mantra cry. My dd did it until 2.5 and it was wearing, but that was her method for switching off. (along with pitch black room, face down buried in pillow, music on etc)

She needs to tackle one thing at a time, but children adapt to changes v quickly, especially bright children.

My dd had terrible sleep problems, and it really is a killer. It got to the point where I said it was going to kill one of us, and I wasn't joking by then (there were other medical problems involved- she could only stay asleep for 5 mins at a time, and it too 50 mins to get her off to sleep!) It is a huge strain on a relationship- overwhelming I know. Plus there is the fact that your friend must get absolutely no time for herself poor woman- which is soul destroying I find personally.

All children want is their loved ones close to them- and he is a smart cookie- he has them right where he wants them fulltime. He is old enough and clever enough for her to explain to him that mummy (and daddy) need time to themselves too in order for them to be happy and to give him their best- children can empathise very well- they may be surprised how well he repsonds to this.
I would also advocate them taking turns- her one night, DH the next. That will give them both a break, even if its not together initially. The one that isn't on duty should try to be out of earshot if possible so they feel like they really are getting a break from it.

Once he can settle at night, get him to settle in the day too- he needs a nap after lunch ideally, an hour at least.

All very easy to say, I know and it sounds so straightforward and simple, as if 'oh wow- we never thought of those things'- I'm sorry, I'm sure she's already tried so many things. All I can do is post what worked for us- dd now sleeps 13 hours per night (3.2, no nap during day) She still moans/fusses about bedtime, but once she is settled, lying down ready for sleep, drifts off within 5 minutes, calmly, no noise. Night terrors are pretty rare now too. The absolute worst thing for her though is to be overtired- she cannot function at all- clumsy, falls over, cries at anything etc.

HTH in some small way- I really feel for her family.

Sorry, meant to add- consistency. Always do things the same. Once they decide to change something- they need to do it the same every time- her and dh. Children need to know that 'these are the rules', and 'this is what we do' etc so they know what to do each day. The parents need to decide what the bedtime routine will be, and both need to do things the same way, same order. And they have both got to be firm about the stay in bed, go to sleep, we love you bit- even if it takes 6 hours the first few night. If they cave- it won't work, because ds will learn that if he just cries that bit longer they'll pick me up and put me in their bed,ooh thats just what I wanted.

Hang in there! my son had dreadful night terrors between 18months and 3 years. They would get to the state where we had 2hours sleep, 20 mins screaming in sleep, 20 mins singing old macdonald to try to get him to respond and calm, 20mins once awake to calm enough to sleep, then finally 20 mins sleep before the crying started.

We had a pattern. The night terrors were worst when he was growing or poorly and we found that some common medicines made it far worse. I would suggest that your friend looks through her medicine cabinet for their child as excludes medised, capol, ventaline, atrovent, becotide, ceterizine hydrochloride (hay fever meds). if the child is has asthma try intel CFC free inhaler. We found that exclusion of these combined with the exclusion of all artifical colours and avoidance of fructose (eg fructose syrup) greatly reduced the serverity and duration of bouts. The night terrors have improved for us now that he is 4 but he still doesn't sleep. And you can cope with anything if you get a good nights sleep!

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